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  • #41
    That would fit really well with the birth I found earlier Margaret. If she wasn't born until 14th December it's very likely that they wouldn't have registered her until Jan-March 1906. That Norah May Leek is on the 1911 as living in Woodbridge Suffolk but unfortunately, doing a free search, the only other Leek coming up in the house is Fredrick George Henry aged 3. I was hoping that her father would be there to see if he matched the father on the marriage cert.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
      That would fit really well with the birth I found earlier Margaret. If she wasn't born until 14th December it's very likely that they wouldn't have registered her until Jan-March 1906. That Norah May Leek is on the 1911 as living in Woodbridge Suffolk but unfortunately, doing a free search, the only other Leek coming up in the house is Fredrick George Henry aged 3. I was hoping that her father would be there to see if he matched the father on the marriage cert.
      No it doesn't Chrissie I've looked at that and they are with an uncle and aunt by the name of William Henry Finney age 57 and Martha Elizabeth age 50, interestingly Martha is shown as born in Stood Kent ! I did have a quick look for her as I think her maiden name is Blake and found her with mum and dad who never seemed to move out of Woodbridge so a bit strange. Would welcome your thoughts on that.
      Margaret

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      • #43
        I think in earlier posts it was said that her father was in the merchant navy so probably away for the census.
        Margaret

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        • #44
          Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
          No it doesn't Chrissie I've looked at that and they are with an uncle and aunt by the name of William Henry Finney age 57 and Martha Elizabeth age 50, interestingly Martha is shown as born in Stood Kent ! I did have a quick look for her as I think her maiden name is Blake and found her with mum and dad who never seemed to move out of Woodbridge so a bit strange. Would welcome your thoughts on that.
          Margaret
          Oh piffle I wonder if they got her birth place wrong? That Norah May Leek birth is the only one around the time.
          I agree that Martha Elizabeth seems to have been a Blake from the marriage. Trying to think how she could be a niece some other way
          Have to go for lunch now or divorce could be on the cards. Will have a think later.
          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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          • #45
            The niece is from the Finney side
            Beatrice Louisa Finney to James Thomas Leek
            Year of Registration: 1905
            [1905]
            Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
            District: Woodbridge County: Suffolk
            Volume: 4a Page: 1987

            That birth you found for Norah is spot on - it ties in with the names in the Will for Harold that Robert got - all the names are in Suffolk so clearly he and Norah were closely linked to that area.

            Might have a look for the deaths of James and Beatrice.
            Margaret

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            • #46
              Have a look at this census RG12; Piece: 1481; Folio 69; Page 3; where the Leek family live 'cheek by jowl' with a large Smith family !!
              Margaret

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              • #47
                Here's James in 1901 RG13; Piece: 1790; Folio: 24 still living next to a Smith family, although a different one to the 1891 lot !
                Margaret
                Last edited by margaretmarch; 10-03-11, 14:32.

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                • #48
                  The father Frederick in 1901 is a mariner too.
                  I'm totally confused now though. Are we looking for a Harold born 1906? What is the connection to Harold born 1897?
                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                    The father Frederick in 1901 is a mariner too.
                    I'm totally confused now though. Are we looking for a Harold born 1906? What is the connection to Harold born 1897?
                    What it is Chrissie, is that Robert had a tree which he sent to me so I could make sense of it and in it he has Arthur E Smith (great uncle ) who has a child Harold A Smith b1897 and it seemed this would be the Harold we were looking for but it is not. Robert doesn't know which branch of his family the Harold b1906 may be from so the task is to find Harold's parents and see where they fit into the tree!!

                    So are you saying Norah's father is Frederick? I had forgotten/missed that.
                    Margaret

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                      What it is Chrissie, is that Robert had a tree which he sent to me so I could make sense of it and in it he has Arthur E Smith (great uncle ) who has a child Harold A Smith b1897 and it seemed this would be the Harold we were looking for but it is not. Robert doesn't know which branch of his family the Harold b1906 may be from so the task is to find Harold's parents and see where they fit into the tree!!

                      So are you saying Norah's father is Frederick? I had forgotten/missed that.
                      Margaret
                      Thank you Margaret - now I understand

                      Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't saying Norah's father was Frederick, just that Norah's father is shown as "Captain merchant Service" and on the 1901 you found the father on there is also a seaman. Sometimes occupations run in families, so I wondered if there was a connection.
                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                      • #51
                        Harold Smith - Birth Certificate

                        I was really pleased and excited to receive a letter yesterday from Carole Leek (A D Leek's mother) in response to my letter. She enclosed a lovely picture of Harold and his birth certificate!
                        This shows Harold's birth date as 28th September 1906 (registered 26/10/1906) with father Arthur and mother Jane Smith (formerly Butler). At that time Arthur was indeed a seaman with Mercantile Marine. The family were also resident in Wharncliffe Gardens, Marylebone, NW London where I know my own father and his brother were also brought up.
                        This is really good news - I think I now need to turn my attention to Arthur's siblings to try to track down some living Smiths!
                        I wonder how this fits in with the 1911 census.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #52
                          I know I'm about 2 1/2 years late but have only just discovered your post, but although I can't really help with your genealogical research, I hope I have some information on Harold Smith that may be of use to you. I knew Harold Smith and his wife Norah (who I knew as Mr & Mrs Smith) very well, as when I was in the 6th Form at school (and after) I worked weekends and holidays for them as a gardener at their home at Baylisden House in Bethersden, Kent (opposite where they filmed "The Darling Buds Of May") from 1983 to 1988. Although Mr Smith died in January 1986, I continued to work for his wife until 1988, until the requirements of my full-time job made it too difficult to continue. Mrs Smith then became ill (a stroke, I think) in 1989, and moved in with relatives in Suffolk (near Eye in Suffolk, I think), until she died in her 90s a few years ago.
                          Looking through the other posts regarding Mr Smith on this forum, I can confirm that he was a former director of ICI (having started his career as chemist), and he had travelled to Mongolia (which he told me was the worst place they had ever been to!) amongst other places (in fact they had travelled all over the world, and showed me a map they kept with all the places they had been to marked on it). I know he travelled to Russia, as he could speak Russian (he knew other languages as well, including Latin). As to when he was born, I can't be sure but 1906 sounds about right (I was sure he was younger than my grandfather). Although when he retired he was offered directorships of other companies, he declined all offers, to devote his time to his garden which he loved. Other things you might not be aware of that may be of interest to you are that he was a Freeman of the City of London (entitling to a key to the City and the right to drive sheep across London Bridge!) and he knew some quite influential figures, such as Dr. Beeching (of railway axing fame) and Sir John Harvey-Jones (former ICI Chairman and BBC "Troubleshooter") - who attended his funeral (at Charing Crematorium).
                          Mr & Mrs Smith's garden at Baylisden was 4 acres in size so there was always plenty to do, and he also owned around 20 acres of farmland around the house (to preserve the peace and quiet of the house). Twice a day we would retire to the house for tea and biscuits where they would regale me with stories of his time at ICI, his travels around the world, his achievements.
                          Although they had 2 cars (a big black Daimler of late 1960s vintage, and a mustard brown 1970 E-type with 2000 miles on the clock - used once for a European holiday) Mr Smith didn't drive (he told me that he always managed to take the running boards of their cars - so had abandoned driving!), leaving Mrs Smith that duty (she had been an ambulance driver during the war) - I often used to see her around the village in her Daimler. Although my name is Darren, they always called me "Dan" (for some reason I never corrected them!). They had no children, but Mrs Smith had relatives in Suffolk, and I seem to remember that they're may ahve been relatives in Sevenoaks as well.
                          Anyway, I hope some of this information has been useful (more anecdotal then genealogical). I'd just like to say that your relative Harold Smith, is still fondly remembered and my time spent working at Baylisden was probably the best job I ever had. He probably inspired in me a desire to travel and an enjoyment of gardening.
                          Should you have any other questions, I'll endeavour to help...

                          Regards
                          Darren Willis

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                          • #53
                            Robert hasn't been on for quite a while Darren, so I have sent him a private message to tell him about our replies. If he still has the same e-mail address and has his settings to receive notification of private messages he will hopefully come back and have a look.

                            I hadn't noticed your last reply at the time Robert. Without reading the whole thread would this 1911 census fit? Arthur possibly at sea?
                            Jane says that she was born Kingsclere Hampshire though and the only birth for a Jane Butler that fits at all would be in March 1866 but she says that she is 42 on the census. Could she have knocked about 3 years off?
                            Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 20-01-13, 22:55.
                            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by darrenleewillis View Post
                              I know I'm about 2 1/2 years late but have only just discovered your post, but although I can't really help with your genealogical research, I hope I have some information on Harold Smith that may be of use to you. I knew Harold Smith and his wife Norah (who I knew as Mr & Mrs Smith) very well, as when I was in the 6th Form at school (and after) I worked weekends and holidays for them as a gardener at their home at Baylisden House in Bethersden, Kent (opposite where they filmed "The Darling Buds Of May") from 1983 to 1988. Although Mr Smith died in January 1986, I continued to work for his wife until 1988, until the requirements of my full-time job made it too difficult to continue. Mrs Smith then became ill (a stroke, I think) in 1989, and moved in with relatives in Suffolk (near Eye in Suffolk, I think), until she died in her 90s a few years ago.
                              Looking through the other posts regarding Mr Smith on this forum, I can confirm that he was a former director of ICI (having started his career as chemist), and he had travelled to Mongolia (which he told me was the worst place they had ever been to!) amongst other places (in fact they had travelled all over the world, and showed me a map they kept with all the places they had been to marked on it). I know he travelled to Russia, as he could speak Russian (he knew other languages as well, including Latin). As to when he was born, I can't be sure but 1906 sounds about right (I was sure he was younger than my grandfather). Although when he retired he was offered directorships of other companies, he declined all offers, to devote his time to his garden which he loved. Other things you might not be aware of that may be of interest to you are that he was a Freeman of the City of London (entitling to a key to the City and the right to drive sheep across London Bridge!) and he knew some quite influential figures, such as Dr. Beeching (of railway axing fame) and Sir John Harvey-Jones (former ICI Chairman and BBC "Troubleshooter") - who attended his funeral (at Charing Crematorium).
                              Mr & Mrs Smith's garden at Baylisden was 4 acres in size so there was always plenty to do, and he also owned around 20 acres of farmland around the house (to preserve the peace and quiet of the house). Twice a day we would retire to the house for tea and biscuits where they would regale me with stories of his time at ICI, his travels around the world, his achievements.
                              Although they had 2 cars (a big black Daimler of late 1960s vintage, and a mustard brown 1970 E-type with 2000 miles on the clock - used once for a European holiday) Mr Smith didn't drive (he told me that he always managed to take the running boards of their cars - so had abandoned driving!), leaving Mrs Smith that duty (she had been an ambulance driver during the war) - I often used to see her around the village in her Daimler. Although my name is Darren, they always called me "Dan" (for some reason I never corrected them!). They had no children, but Mrs Smith had relatives in Suffolk, and I seem to remember that they're may ahve been relatives in Sevenoaks as well.
                              Anyway, I hope some of this information has been useful (more anecdotal then genealogical). I'd just like to say that your relative Harold Smith, is still fondly remembered and my time spent working at Baylisden was probably the best job I ever had. He probably inspired in me a desire to travel and an enjoyment of gardening.
                              Should you have any other questions, I'll endeavour to help...

                              Regards
                              Darren Willis
                              Hi Darren,

                              Thank you so much for this information. It is this sort of detail that helps to really build up a picture of Harold who I was never able to meet. I can see the affection in which you held him and his family. I have shared your information with my cousin Geoffrey who did meet him and he recalls the house, grounds and cars that you mention and is also grateful for your help. He and I and my children are the only living blood relatives of Harold of which I am aware so I am also on the trail of any other Smiths and I may well be in touch via another post here if I get any further.
                              Apologies for taking a while to reply I haven't been on this site for a while as family history is quite time consuming and I have precious little at the moment. I'm promising myself time once I retire later this year and hope to be a regular at this forum again then.
                              Thank you again so much for this which I will be adding to my tree shortly.
                              Kind regards,
                              Robert

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                First of all, my apologies for taking so long to respond...

                                I'm glad I could be of help with providing some background to you relative, Harold Smith, and a first-hand account as to what he was like as a person. It also hopefully clarifies and confirms that you are on the trail of the correct individual (I've also just seen the photo above submitted by another correspondent and confirm that is definitely him!). Should you or your family have any other questions, I'll endeavour to help to the best of my knowledge, but I think my earlier missive pretty well sums it up.

                                And I'd also just like to thank Chrissie Smiff for her help in alerting you to my post...

                                Regards

                                Darren Willis

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