Help required to find someone

[Chrissie Smiff]

Can you tell us the parents names of your Edmund James Cockell please Kate? The connection to Donald John Cockell may be further back than you are looking. UPDATE - I have found the parent of Edmund thank you.

By the way, you gave Edmund James birth date as 1868 but the only likely birth I can find is Edmund James Cockell born in Croydon in December 1867 ref 2a 168

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have just found a rather tenuous link to the boxer and your Edmund James Cockell. Apparently the boxer Don Cockell was a blacksmith and so was your Edmunds father. Not much to go on but it may have been a family trade.

[trek]

Re Kate Cockell

I know I definitely made this connection about a year ago after much searching on Ancestry, but blowed if I can find it now after many hours over the last couple of days. I'm trying to find a Kate Cockell (not sure if this was her proper name or shortened).

Kate Cockell is the mother of Donald John Cockell (found that out on Wikipedia) who was the Light Heavyweight boxing champion in the early 1950s. Apparently Don never knew his father, so guess he was illegitimate. Don was born in 1928 and died in 1983. He married a Patricia Mary and they had two sons, Peter and Patrick.

I have Edmund James Cockell (b. 1868) married Susannah Ada Skiplorne (b.1870) in 1895. Susannah died in 1896, poor girl after only one year of marriage. Perhaps Susannah died giving birth to Kate?

As I say, I did find the connection once, so know there's a link. All the above events took place in London.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks in advance

Kathy

Hi Kathy,

I think I can help a bit. I am the Patrick Cockell that you mention. Don Cockell was my Father and Kate was my Grandmother.

You have got something wrong. My Father was married twice. Myself, Peter and our sister, Linda, were all the children of Don and his first wife Irene Alice Cockell ( nee Powell.) He has another family with Pat who he married later ( I think.) I think her previous name was Blackwell (not positive.) They had a number of kids who are nearly as old as we are. We have never met (but I would like to some time.)

Don's mother lived in Bishopsford Road, Carshalton, Surrey. She married a man called Alf Potter so you may have more luck finding her as Kate Potter. They had two children called Kenny and Beryl who are probably late sixties/early seventies by now.

I think my father's father's name was John Cockell who was described as an Italian Ice Cream salesman. I think he died when he was 54.

I probably know a bit more but I need to know the context of your search.

Good Luck,

Patrick Cockell

[kathyhpink]

Hi Patrick

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but have been laid up with flu! Thank you so much for the information, I never expected a reply from one of Don's children! I can't now find a direct link, but this is what I have so far:

William Cockell (b. 1816, d. 1875) m. Ann (b. 1813)
Son Edmund Cockell (b. 1843, d. 1906) m. 1866 Sarah Annie Fletcher (b. 1845, d. 1901)
Son Edmund James Cockell (b. 1867, d. 1902) m. 1895 Susanna Ada Skiplorne (d. 1896, in childbirth) - my great great aunt
Son Edmund Cockell (b. 1896) m. 1918 Lilian M Deller

I guess there's a connection somewhere, but will take more research.

I notice there are two separate family trees on Ancestry who both have the mother of Donald J Cockell (1928 - 1982) down as Kate Louisa Cockell. Neither of them have this one down as being married or having any other children. This Kate also returned from Argentina in October 1957. Her father was John Daniel Cockell (1867 - 1917) and mother Annie Kate Woods. Looks like they have made a big error?

If you have any information which you don't mind me having, I would be very grateful. You can PM me, or I can let you have my e-mail address.

Many thanks again

Kathy

[Chrissie Smiff]

I don't like to interfere here but to save anyone else looking for a Kate - the marriage of Alfred Potter was to a Mary A K Cockell in Battersea in 1935. I'm pretty sure this is the marriage that Patrick is talking about because the children fit.

They had the first child B.... M Potter (I've found a possible marriage but not a death - hence the .........) in Battersea in 1938. Then the second child K...... G Potter in Surrey in 1941 (No death found). Alfred Potter possibly died in 1958 (aged 59) in Surrey.

[kathyhpink]

Hi Chrissie

No worries, you're not interfering at all, but being very helpful and informative. Much appreciated, it's a big help, thank you!

Kathy

[Chrissie Smiff]

You're welcome Kathy
I forgot to say that I think the lady who married Alf Potter was born Mary Ann K Cockell 31st March 1904 - ref April - June 1904 Wandsworth 1d 644 and died as Mary Ann K Potter Jan-March 1975 - Sutton, Greater London, ref 15 0538

I don't know whether any of this helps you to tie your family in or not.

p.s. There is a lady named Monica on GR who has 2 of your Edmunds listed and also Lilian Deller. It might be worth contacting her?

[Bev1]

Hi Chrissie

Not sure if you are interested still. Ken Potter is my father and he is not dead. His mother was Mary Ann Cockell which was her maiden name. One of her brothers was also a Cockell, the other three had the name of Bolster. Bolster was the name of their father and Mary Ann's stepfather. Beryl sadly passed away a couple of years ago. Alfred Potter told my dad that he was the 21st child out of 21. Bev

[margaretmarch]

Welcome Bev to FTF. This thread was started by kathyhpink and Chrissie was just helping her. You may find it more useful to contact kathy by sending a Private message - do this by clicking on her name on one of the posts and you get a list with Private message showing, click on that and she will get an email telling her of your interest.

Good luck!
Margaret

[petercockell]

The above is inaccurate. I am Peter Cockell. Don married twice, firstly to Irene Powell, who was patricks and my mum. then to Patricia that you mention

[petercockell]

Weird,
Kenny and Beryl were my half-uncle and sister!!! regards Peter Cockell

[clematised]

Welcome Peter, You can contact any of the above posters by clicking on their user name which will then give you the option to send this person a private message, if they are using the same e mail address then they will receive a message telling them of your PM........Edna

[Tracyann]

Hi I am searching to find the family connection I have with Don Cockell , my dad and his brothers have been told that Don Cockell is a family member , I can not find the link. My dad name is Terry cockell , his father came out of Tottenham , his father was bill cockell . Wondering g if anyone can help me

[margaretmarch]

Hi I am searching to find the family connection I have with Don Cockell , my dad and his brothers have been told that Don Cockell is a family member , I can not find the link. My dad name is Terry cockell , his father came out of Tottenham , his father was bill cockell . Wondering g if anyone can help me

Unless you know what relation Don Cockell is to your father you will have to trace a family tree to see if Don fits in. You start by looking at your father's birth certificate for the full names of his parent's and go back from there.

You cannot post the names of living people on here.

If you have a subscription to Ancestry you can search for trees that have Don listed and have a look for any names that could link to your father.

Margaret

[Tracyann]

Hi I am trying to find my family link to Don cockell too

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi I am trying to find my family link to Don cockell too

As you have told us that you already have your family tree Tracy that is why we keep saying that you need to look into Don's tree to see if you can find the connection. I have added a few clues to you own thread - https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...32-Don-Cockell

[Tracyann]

Hi I have just read on one of the links that some of the Cockell's lived in Edmonton , my grandfather was living in Edmonton and I believe he lived in hackney when he was a child , my grandthers brother lived in Tottenham

[KevinBattle]

Right, I've just joined as I live next door to where Don lived in Ninfield, the house he built in 1958.
The Hastings Observer has just run an article about Don being the licensee of the "Jenny Lind" pub in Hastings.

Obviously you have had inputs on this and the other Don Cockell thread from Dons sons Patrick and Peter, who should know something of their family story, but hopefully I might have new information for you all.

The world famous Swedish opera singer Jenny Lind "The Swedish Nightingale" lived in Hastings for a short while in the 1800s. The original pub was bombed during WW2, but without the tragic consequences and loss of life that the nearby Swan Inn suffered. The pub that stands there now was built after the war, 1947 I think, but I may be wrong about that date. It's possible that the original pub once had a different name as many pubs have changed their names over the years.


Hastings Chronicle states: 1950 December: The Jenny Lind pub in the High Street reopens, having been rebuilt since it was wrecked by a bomb on May 23 1943. It becomes famous in 1959 when the British heavyweight boxing champion Don Cockell takes the license. The original Jenny Lind hotel and public house opened in 1850 on the site of the Bell dating from 1613.


Jenny Lind stayed for a while in a friends house in 11 Edward Road,St.Leonards while having a short break.The house, which was unique, was offered to the local museum shortly after the war but the offer was not taken up. More information on this is available from the Local History section at the Museum. I believe she sang at St.Clements which was why the pub was named after her.


From the Local History Museum: Apparently this was the home of an owner of a famous London restaurant. later the home of Frankforte-Moore the author, and in the 1980's the home of Fiona Pitt-Kethley, sadly she and her mother were unable to keep it up and later a dealer took out some of the fittings. An article in the Observer dated Sept.12,1985 states that Jenny Lind was rumoured to have sung in St.Clements. Dyer and Overton, who advertised Number 11 for sale in 1939, stated that a carved oak door was previously owned by J.L. It seems that the restaurant owner was a friend of J.L. and in this particular year she did spend a lot of time on the South Coast mostly in the Brighton area.


(that's just the background blurb, here's the Cockell part)....


His full name was Donald John Cockell and he was born on 22 September 1928 in Balham, London, the son of Mary Cockell, a domestic servant from Battersea. He never knew his father. (perhaps he did?) He was a blacksmith by trade, and as a result developed a strong physique. He began boxing in fairground booths and soon rose through the amateur ranks until he was ready to turn professional in 1946.


The Rocky Marciano title fight had taken much out of Cockell, and he lost his subsequent two fights. In September 1955 he lost to the Cuban, Nino Valdes at the White City Stadium by a technical knockout in the third round. He weighed 15 st 6 lbs for the fight. In April 1956 he was knocked out in the second round Kitione Lave, known as the "Tongan Terror". That was his final fight. In May 1956 he was stripped of his Commonwealth title and in July he surrendered his British title and retired.


Cockell sued the Daily Mail after the newspaper had described him as being ‘overweight and flabby’ for his last fight, and not giving his all. He received £7,500 damages with costs. (This may have provided Don with sufficient funds to build his house "Costa Vista" (which neighbours think was because his wife was Spanish, but probably because it does have a Coast View)


He tried various jobs including running a farm, being a publican, and running a haulage firm. By 1975 he was working as a craftsman blacksmith in the permanent way machine shops at the London Underground Lillie Bridge Depot in Fulham. His last job was as an emergency maintenance man. He died of cancer on 18 July 1983 at a hospital in Tooting. He was married to Patricia Mary Cockell. There’s a plaque outside his house in Balham. Don Cockell had a heart in proportion with his physique.


Name: Donald J Cockell. Registration Date: 22 September 1928. Registration district: Wandsworth, London
Mother's Maiden Name: Cockell. Volume Number: 1d. Page Number: 694.
Address given by Family Tree 46 Ousley Road, Balham


His mother is believed to be Mary Ann Katherine (Kate) Cockell b 31 March 1904. In 1934 Electoral Roll she is living as Miss Mary Ann Catherine Cockell with Florence Mary Cockell, the 2 George Frederick Bolsters (senior) and junior; brother John Henry and Mary Ann Bolster at 44 Havelock Terrace, Nine Elms, Wandsworth.


4th Qtr 1935 she may have married Alfred Potter in Battersea Vol 1d p843. (but not shown in 1939 Register unless there were two Mary Ann's in the household (possible)


Probate: Cockell, Donald John, 36 Whiteway, Great Bookham, Leatherhead, Surrey. Died 16 July 1983. Administration: London 23 February 1984. Estate not exceeding £40,000.


1939 Register: At 44, Havelock Terrace, Battersea. Head: Mary Bolster (b 31 October 1879 (60 years old); George Frederick Bolster iron and metal core maker (heavy industry) born 17 June 1910; John Henry Bolster 12 September 1912, public works contractor (heavy industry); Donald Cockell at school. With him living with the Bolster family, Mary could not have been the mother of a child at 51, whereas George would have been 18, and therefore possibly the putative father. Hmmm.....


Name: Donald J Cockell. Registration Date: Jul-Aug-Sep 1946. Registration district: Surrey Mid Eastern
Spouse: Alice I Powell. Volume Number: 5g. Page Number: 797.


In 1955 he returned from America aboard the Queen Mary giving his address as Diamonds Farm, Horam, Sussex. His wife, Alice I Cockell (b 9 Feb 1928) travelled with him. Also travelling was John Simpson, boxing manager, Fred Simpson, trainer and Ron Harman, boxer. Israel Solomons, a boxing promoter was also travelling. In 1952, Don and Alice lived in High Street Esher. In 1970 Don was living in London Road, Cheam with a Patricia Cockell (2nd wife?)


There is a WW1 Service record for George Frederick Bolster (senior) born 1884. Intriguingly he had previous service as G F Collins, No 5468 Royal West Kent, discharged 5 July 1915. He rejoined as G/17315 on 23 August 1916 graded B1. to Royal West Kent Reg't. Address was 43 Havelock Terrace, Battersea.
His Next of Kin was Mary Ann Bolster, who he married at Wandsworth Register Office on 4th April 1910.
He served in 1st Battalion Queens Own (Royal West Kent as L/5468 and entered France on 13 September 1914, thus being entitled to 1914 Star with Clasp and Roses, as well as Victory and British War medal.


He registered 5 children, George Frederick, born 17 June 1910 (2 months after marriage) John Henry born 13 September 1912 (both in Lambeth) William Robert born 9 April 1915 in Battersea and two others, Charles Arthur Cockell born 6 October 1901 in Wandsworth and Mary Ann Katherine born 31 March 1904 in Clapham. It's obvious that the "Cockell" children are before his marriage to Mary Ann, but why was he previously "G F Collins"? Was she previously a Mrs Cockell and the 2 children hers?


George was discharged as no longer physically fit for War Service Para 392 (xvi) on 11 October 1916.


In 1891 Census there is a Mary Ann Cockell (incorrectly transcribed as Cochell) born 1878 living with parents John and Martha in Battersea with an elder brother Frederick b 1876.


In 1911 Census she appears as Mary Ann Bolster married to George Frederick Bolster (who had served in 1st Battalion Royal West Kent Reg't from 1902 as 5468 Private George Frederick Collins......) Children shown are Charles Bolster, aged 9; Kate Bolster, aged 7 and George Bolster 10 months.


I think the spelling for Fredrick should actually be Frederick as I believe this is the marriage for the couple (in case it helps). Frederick George Cockell to Mary Ann E Roffey - Sept 1899 Hackney Ref 1b 1015. I think this is the right Frederick and Mary Ann as there are corresponding births for Frederick George Cockell in December 1877 Hackney 1b 552 and one for Mary Ann E Roffey in September 1876 in St Olave 1d 222.


Patrick then said: My Father was married twice. Myself, Peter and our sister, Linda, were all the children of Don and his first wife Irene Alice Cockell (nee Powell.) [My Note: I think those names have become reversed]. He has another family with Pat who he married later ( I think.) I think her previous name was Blackwell (not positive.) They had a number of kids who are nearly as old as we are. We have never met (but I would like to some time.)


Don's mother lived in Bishopsford Road, Carshalton, Surrey. She married a man called Alf Potter so you may have more luck finding her as Kate Potter. They had two children called Kenny and Beryl who are probably late sixties/early seventies by now.

I think my father's father's name was John Cockell who was described as an Italian Ice Cream salesman. I think he died when he was 54.

I hope that helps with a complex Family Tree, and I'd like to know any information about Don and living in Ninfield, if possible, please.