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  • phthisis pulmonalis

    ive just got the death of my ancestor, richard morton on 2 feb 1856, camberwell. cause of death was 'phthisis pulmonalis', basically tuberculosis. he had it for one year! is that possible? :conf:

  • #2
    Maybe they only knew about it for one year. Some people have it for many years.

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    • #3
      It might only be diagnosed when he started coughing up blood.
      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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      • #4
        Hi folks this is the link that brought me to this forum, I have just received a death cert of an ancestor who died 1880, after a lot of head scratchingI worked out he died of"TB" ie phthisis pulmonalis.
        Now this raises more questions,[a] he was a ship wright in RN, aged 47[B] according to certificate he had this desease for 16years 6month & 3 week.!!!!!!![&c] during all this time he was in the Royal Navy Lunatic Hospital G Yarmouth. I think you have allready guessed the questions, BUT length of desease is this possible ? why not discharge him from service ? & WHY resident in a LUNATIC HOSTPITAL.
        I know this is a lot from a newby, but am hoping there may be an expert on Navel protocol, who MIGHT even know if I could find his previous service history.Thank you one & all for at least taking time to read this, & possible ssisting me in some small measure.

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        • #5
          Hi Snogoose and welcome to FTF.

          Your man was in the lunatic asylum because he was insane, not because he had TB. He died of TB in the asylum, just as he might have died of a heart attack or measles or old age.

          It's unlikely he had TB for 16 years in the asylum - TB was a notifiable disease and as there was no effective treatment, sufferers were isolated, usually in sanatoriums (which might have been in the grounds of a lunatic asylum but usually not).

          I think the occupation shown on a death certificate is usually the last occupation the deeased had...which didn't mean he was still thus employed.

          Are you sure it shows 16 years? If so, I wonder if this was the length of time he suffered whatever illness it was which meant he was incarcerated in an asylum. You may be able to get hold of his asylum records.

          OC

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          • #6
            Hi there now do'nt these forums throw up surprises Mr/Mrs HOLDEN this is a thanks from MR HOLDING, sure where not family :>) anyway the cert was very specific, cause of death Phthisis Pulmonalis 16yr 6mnt 30 days, sighned by Dr. On most death certs they usually list "Primary cause of death + Secondary cause, when this was introduced not sure. of cause being millatary hospital they may do things differently . Afraid that is the only thing I can tell you, but thanks fer you speedy reply. snogoose

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            • #7
              It was built during the Napoleonic wars as a hospital for Nelson's men, but never used.
              Later the building was turned into an asylum for those who were (or had been) serving in the navy and were mentally ill.

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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              • #8
                Hmmm, wonder if he was transferred to the naval hospital from a TB sanatorium because he was mentally ill? Or maybe he really was there for 16 years with TB. Silly question - can you see him there in 1871?

                Really your next move is to either get his service papers or to try to get his hospital records.

                (Yes, I'm a Lancashire Holden by birth and I am doing an extensive study of the Holden family so you and I are probably related somewhere along the line!)

                OC

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                • #9
                  He was there in 1871
                  -RG10 piece 1787 folio 21 page 35
                  Naval Hospital
                  Holding James Unmar 37 Shipwright born Scotland Lunatic
                  Last edited by JudithM; 26-07-12, 09:57.
                  Judith passed away in October 2018

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                  • #10
                    A little piece here about the hospital & records



                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Judith!

                      I suppose it is possible to have TB for 16 years, but without any treatment I feel it is very unlikely he would have survived that long, especially in an institution. I wonder if the cause of death is covering up something else that was wrong with him.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        The image describes James and all the others as "patients" - I didn't see any use of the word "lunatic."
                        Often these institutions were very large and as there weren't enough candidates meeting the original entry criteria, people suffering from other conditions were taken in. I suspect the main qualification was a condition of some kind which required care - get them in there at naval expense - and a connection with the navy.
                        As James was a shipwright, I wonder if he was a civilian employed by the navy in the naval docks/repair yards? The list of patients also includes a couple of painters and a shoemaker, all of which would probably be shore based occupations????

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Thanks Judith!

                          I suppose it is possible to have TB for 16 years, but without any treatment I feel it is very unlikely he would have survived that long, especially in an institution. I wonder if the cause of death is covering up something else that was wrong with him.

                          OC
                          Well, that went through my mind OC, especially with a naval/docks background.

                          Jay
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                          • #14
                            Just had a quick google and the death rate in the 1800s for TB for those who were in institutions, was death within five years of contracting TB.

                            You can have undiagnosed, asymptomatic TB for many years....but they wouldn't have had any way of diagnosing that in the 1800s.

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                              The image describes James and all the others as "patients" - I didn't see any use of the word "lunatic."
                              Often these institutions were very large and as there weren't enough candidates meeting the original entry criteria, people suffering from other conditions were taken in. I suspect the main qualification was a condition of some kind which required care - get them in there at naval expense - and a connection with the navy.
                              As James was a shipwright, I wonder if he was a civilian employed by the navy in the naval docks/repair yards? The list of patients also includes a couple of painters and a shoemaker, all of which would probably be shore based occupations????

                              Jay
                              Janet, the word lunatic appears at top of the right hand column with dittos all the way down the page.
                              Judith passed away in October 2018

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                              • #16
                                There is another possibility. If the patient(s) had syphilis as well as TB, then in the later stages they could well be in an an asylum.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks for that Judith.
                                  I think I probably had enlarged the image to such an extent that I couldn't even see the infirmities column. (I was carried away by the occupations!)

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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