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Solomon Smith help with date of death

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  • #21
    Thanks guys.

    Elaine I also have the 1871 census and agree with you that this must be them. I was very confused when they gave yet another place of birth. I might try the birth you have suggested.

    Chrissie - I tried the Walsall birth a few months ago and it wasn't him unfortunately. The mother was different so looks like that one is a dead end. But thanks for your help.

    This one looks like being a real hard one but will give it a bash.

    Steven

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    • #22
      Just checking google maps. Weedon Beck is about two miles east of Nether Heyford.
      Elaine







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      • #23
        Elaine - I am sure that will be the right one! The canal goes right through Weedon Beck, but not through the other ones. They would have stayed on the barge - not got off and travelled to a village

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        • #24
          The canal runs from Nether Heyford to Weedon - roughly following the Weedon Road. She could have gone into labour between the two :0

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          • #25
            That birth that Elaine has given you looks good :smilee:

            I assume you have them in 1861?
            Class: RG9; Piece: 2041; Folio: 23; Page: 46; GSU roll: 542908

            A boatman in Tipton on the Wharf.

            James 40 born Shenstone
            Hannah 40 born Wolverhampton
            Mary Ann 15 "
            Eliza 12 "
            James 10 "
            Thomas 8 born Bar Bridge Cheshire
            Alfred 3 Born Northampton
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

            Comment


            • #26
              Thanks Elaine and Trina coming from Scotland my English geography is appalling!!

              Re the comments made by some members regarding trying to verify parents before ordering a certificate how do you do this and who would you phone? I have traditionally tried to locate a likely birth, death or marriage certificate on line and then ordered the extract via GRO. To date I have only ordered about three incorrect certificates but if there is a way to do this and potentially verify before ordering that would be fantastic.

              With my Scottish Ancestors it has been easier as you can redefine your searches by inputting parents names which then normally reduces any potential discoveries to one of two potential matches and in most cases just one match.

              I suppose what is making it hard tracing Solomon is that by working on boats you would expect them to travel a lot which can complicate things. Thanks so much regarding the comments on Weedon. I was starting to think that the 1871 census was the wrong one but all the family names tied up so it must be right. I also never thought that the earlier censuses would have more correct estimates of birth but I suppose that would be right as it would be easier to guess a child's age that someone who is in their 30's or 40's.

              So looks like I might go ahead and order the one Elaine suggests. Elaine do you know the date that is given as his date of birth. Thanks for the page and volume details.

              Steven

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              • #27
                Chrissie thanks for the 1861 one I didn't have that. I was typing my other reply at the same time as you. My ancestry registration has run out so I can't print off the 1861 but I can jot the details down into my book so many thanks for that.

                Steven

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                • #28
                  Steven - re the date of birth, all you can tell from the registration details is that the birth was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1866. This means his date of birth could be anything from the latter part of February to the end of June - you had 42 days in which to register the birth so a late February birth could still be registered in the 2nd quarter.

                  I normally order from the GRO as it is the easiest and quickest way when you are living abroad! You will find that there is an option to add a checking reference. When you get to the page where you enter the name and registration details (district, volume, page number) - if you scroll down you will see a tab for Reference Checking. Click on that tab and enter whatever information you want to check the certificate against - in this case, if you want to, mother and father's names. I would recommend you keep any checking references to an absolute minimum. If one piece of information doesn't fit with the certificate then they wont send it. I must admit I rarely ask for a checking reference - I would rather take my chances with what I have ordered in the hope it's right .. and have only got one wrong one so far! - but with a name like Smith then I can see the benefits.

                  If the information you have given for a checking reference does not match then the GRO will email you and tell you. They will charge you £3 for the privilege of having checked it and told you it doesn't match and will refund you £4.

                  Your other option is to order from the relevant Register Office - in this case Northamptonshire. Most Register Offices charge the same for certificates, i.e. £7, but some charge a little bit more. Some are more helpful than others in that you can phone and weedle a bit more information out of them, such as "if I order this certificate of Soloman Smith will it show a father's name of James and a mother of Hannah". If it's no - then it hasn't cost you anything. I also believe a lot of Records Offices refund the whole amount of £7 if the checking reference doesn't match.

                  Note: the reference number you have for the GRO (which is the one I have given) is of no use when you order from a local Records Office.
                  Elaine







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                  • #29
                    Looking at the list of Register Offices on the Northamptonshire page in the wiki it looks as if it is probably the Daventry one that you would need.

                    Daventry Register Office
                    Lodge Road
                    Daventry
                    NN11 4FP

                    Tel: 01327 302209
                    Email: daventryro@northampton.gov.uk
                    Elaine







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                    • #30
                      You are welcome Steven.
                      As regards the Daventry cert that Elaine found - if it were me I would start by e-mailing or telephoning the Daventry office and asking them how you can order the certificate for Solomon ONLY if the father and mother match. Some offices are brilliant and will be very helpful. They won't want the reference, only the names, quarter and Daventry.

                      Daventry The Register Office, Council Offices, Lodge Road, Daventry, NN11 4FP.
                      Tel: 01327 302209. E-mail: daventryro@northamptonshire.gov.uk
                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                      • #31
                        Oops - I took so long to type all that Elaine had beaten me to it :Big Grin:
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                        • #32
                          I think I might just risk it and order the one Elaine recommended. As I said before I have only had 2 or 3 incorrect ones which isn't bad for the surname Smith!!!

                          Just glad that 2 generations had a more unusual name of Solomon rather than my name lof Steven which I guess would have meant I would have had no chance.

                          If I can get this right that would mean that I have traced both my paternal grandparents and great grandparents and a further generation back on my Stokes side - again thanks to a more unusual name of Ambrose Stokes which isn't half bad I feel. On my Scottish side I am back to around 1662 on one side and around 1700 on the other.

                          I must say however that the English side has been thoroughly enjoyable as I had no real family aside from my dad to help me and the boatman side of things has been very interesting.

                          I will let you know if its the right one in due course

                          Steven

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                          • #33
                            Elaine, Trina and Chrissie just a big thank you. I received the birth certificate for Soloman today and it was the right one yippee!!.

                            His father is listed as James with his occupation as boatman and I knew that these details were correct from various censuses and therefore knew that this certificate has to be the right one. Also the mother is listed as Hannah Clarke and I knew that Soloman's mother was Hannah but the maiden name is new information. The date of birth is 8/3/1866.

                            The information regarding Weedon and Heyford was spot one. I would never have known that both those places were on the same canal route and that Soloman was probably born on a barge in between the two places.

                            I think I have taken this side as far as I can as the names James Smith and Hannah Clarke would probably be like looking for a needle in a haystack at least with Soloman I had a chance!!! Incidently the spelling of Soloman is also different I thought it would have been the same as his son Solomon but it has an a at the end of it.

                            I managed to find out on another thread of the maternal side Stokes that my relatives were fully qualified boatmen (Ambrose and Samuel) but it looks like on the Smith side that although they worked for many years on the water they may not have been fully qualified watermen.

                            Anyway thank you again as I would not have got there without you all.

                            Steven

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                            • #34
                              Good news Steven.
                              Elaine







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                              • #35
                                You say you don´t think you can go back on this one, but have you considered this as a possible marriage registration (listing from freeBMD)

                                Marriages Mar 1845
                                CLARKE Hannah
                                Perry John
                                Pooler Samuel
                                SHELDON Amy
                                Smith James
                                Wall Beatrice
                                Walters James
                                WELCH Louisa

                                Wolverhampton 17 327

                                Marriage seems about the right time, looking at the listing of children in the 1861 census - and place looks good as Hannah was born in Wolverhampton.

                                Just a thought! :smilee:
                                Elaine







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                                • #36
                                  That is tempting Elaine and many thanks again. Do I need the volume and page number to order via gro? It does seem a very good call as Hannah was born in Wolverhampton according to the various censuses.

                                  You are a whiz I must say!!!

                                  Steven

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                                  • #37
                                    The reference is
                                    March 1845
                                    Wolverhampton, volume 17 page 327

                                    I trust you realise that there is no guarantee that James Smith married Hannah Clarke. The FreeBMD list is produced in alphabetical order so until you order the certificate it is impossible to say who married who!

                                    What you can do is to go through the 1851 census seeing if you can marry off the other males in the list to Amy, Beatrice and Louisa - which will leave you with James and Hannah as a pairing.

                                    Any way, might be worth a gamble! :Wink:
                                    Elaine







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                                    • #38
                                      amy, louisa, and beatrice arnt common names, so youll have more luck pairing them off then say, jane, anne, sarah.

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                                      • #39
                                        Found a useful link in the wiki!
                                        Wolverhampton History

                                        Click on Family History
                                        Scroll down and select Wolverhampton Female Marriages, surnames A-E - download pdf file

                                        On page 40 you will find the following:

                                        Marriage date 3 March 1845
                                        James Smith - full age - bachelor - occupation boatman.
                                        Father - W.Smith - occupation gardener

                                        Hannah Clarke - full age - single
                                        Father - J. Clarke - occupation boatman.

                                        Marriage by banns.

                                        Two names listed who I presume are witnesses:
                                        George Jones
                                        J. Biddulph Jr.

                                        Geo Cottom - probably name of vicar

                                        St. Peter's

                                        (There is probably a grid somewhere which tells you what all the different columns are - but didn't have a good look for it!)

                                        Well, that's saved you £7! :Big Grin:
                                        Elaine







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                                        • #40
                                          There are some baptism records on that site as well, download as pdf file.
                                          Might be worth seeing if Hannah's baptism is there!
                                          Elaine







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