Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ass[u]ag department?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ass[u]ag department?

    Hello!

    I am new here, only registered a few weeks ago and haven't posted yet, but now I have a problem and I wondered if anyone of you might be able to shed a light on this...

    On the 1911 census Mary Ann Petterson in London, my husband's maternal great grandmother, writes of her son that he is 'a labourer at the assage department of the lead works in Rotherhithe'. 'Assage' is probably 'assuage' misspelled, but what does the whole thing mean? He was only 15 then.

    I looked it up in the dictionary as I am actually Dutch speaking, but it means soften or relieve or something like that (as you all know), not anything to do with industry.

    Does anyone know what the 'assage department' is?
    Last edited by kiki1982; 14-06-09, 13:18.

  • #2
    I'm no great expert on lead works, but "assuage" doesn't sound right. Do you have the 1911 census image, or just the transcription? If you only have the transcription, you'll need to get the image to see what it says. If you still can't work it out, you can post the excerpt in question here and we'll try and decipher it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have the image printed off.

      In my mind it definitely says 'assage'. She writes her g's when she writes 'single' the same as that letter. Although, if she wrote her y's similarly, then it is possible that it says 'assaye', which does have a chemical/industrial context.

      Comment


      • #4
        I looked up lead works on google and got this http://www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_10435.pdf you might find it interesting. Type 'lead works' in the find box.
        Margaret

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, thank you. Next time we are in London we'll have to take look in the Heritage Museum...

          Comment


          • #6
            I think it is almost certainly "Assay" - all metals have to be assayed.

            Labourer in the assay department probably meant he just fetched and carried!

            By the way Kiki, if Dutch is your first language, I congratulate you on your faultless written English!

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              Welkom Kiki!
              Sarah

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kiki1982 View Post
                I have the image printed off.

                In my mind it definitely says 'assage'. She writes her g's when she writes 'single' the same as that letter. Although, if she wrote her y's similarly, then it is possible that it says 'assaye', which does have a chemical/industrial context.
                Ah, that's much more likely. I bet it's the assay department.

                Congratulations on your excellent English, by the way. I'd never have guessed that you're not a native speaker.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Would it be where they soften the lead prior to pouring into moulds - I can see Silver and Gold being assayed because they are valuable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Assaying means testing, not softening.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you for your compliments, my husband is English... :D And I am doing the maternal line of his family tree... The rest is Polish and I cannot do Polish, so I decided to do the female line that has also Scandinavian roots. Being a Dutch speaker, that does not pose as many problems as Polish.

                      Anyway. I am now inclined to think that she misspelled 'assay' and put an e on the end.

                      But, James, what do they do with gold and silver when they 'soften' it? Of course lead is not that valuable, but still, taking all options into consideration.

                      I have looked at the lead works in Southwark-Rotherhithe and the biggest one that existed from 1870 to about the 1980s manufactured solder, batteries and that kind of thing. With the second factory there was not that much info. Would they, for such minor things, take the pains to actually spend time on softening it? As they do with crude oil when they 'assay' it, they hve a look what it is suitable for.

                      What do you all think?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Assuage means to soften a reply etc. Assaying means to test the purity of the metal

                        To produce items like toy soldiers they would (Lead) be poured into moulds
                        Last edited by James; 14-06-09, 16:40.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That is what I gathered from the dictionary, but is there a meaning in the metal-department? Or can that only be 'assay'?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No. I'm sure the word "assuage" isn't used in metalworking.

                            There is a process called "swaging", not sure if it'd be used in a lead works.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Although lead is only a base metal, it still has to be assayed by the manufacturer to ensure it is the correct quality for the job in hand - white lead and black lead, for example, have different alloy compositions.

                              Black lead for pencils needs to be exactly the right consistency otherwise it is useless for pencil making! Lead flashing for roofs also needs to be the correct composition - too hard is no good, neither is too soft.

                              "Swaging" according to my dictionary is a method of making fancy ribbing patterns in a metal or wood - not sure why you would want to fancy-rib lead!

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                Black lead for pencils needs to be exactly the right consistency otherwise it is useless for pencil making!

                                Tut Tut. Lead pencils are made from graphite (carbon).

                                Lead flashing for roofs also needs to be the correct composition - too hard is no good, neither is too soft.

                                "Swaging" according to my dictionary is a method of making fancy ribbing patterns in a metal or wood - not sure why you would want to fancy-rib lead!

                                Swaging is what a lead-worker does when moulding it to shape. He bashes it gently with a special-shaped wooden mallet.
                                End of lecture.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  oh oh oh...

                                  So now the assuage is out of the way, a new idea comes up.

                                  She literally wrote 'assage'. The swaging-suggesting is great. She also wrote 'daugther' for her female offspring, so maybe she confused swaging with assuaging... And both words had to do with making something soft...

                                  There is something in that...

                                  I thank you all.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    UJ

                                    Black lead pencils are made from graphite NOW but not back then!

                                    Swaging doesn't throw up that definition in my dictionary, but if you are correct (not that I doubt you, you understand) then perhaps Kiki's relative DID work in the Swaging Department after all!

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                                      Swaging is what a lead-worker does when moulding it to shape. He bashes it gently with a special-shaped wooden mallet.
                                      Ah, that sounds promising, then. Either the mother or the enumerator presumably knew what the word sounded like, but not how it was spelled.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                        UJ

                                        Black lead pencils are made from graphite NOW but not back then!
                                        Are you sure? I suspect it was always graphite.

                                        Swaging doesn't throw up that definition in my dictionary
                                        You must have a very small dictionary, OC...

                                        Swage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X