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  • #21
    Laura...........happy to do a Sawrey swap...anytime.

    Mary..........My Agatha Sawrey married David Kirkby. Their daughter married William Ariel.

    There was a Myles (Miles) in every generation. It's a Lancashire thing.....OC and I "sorta" worked it to fit in with the death of Myles Gerrard. Seems since then they all had a Myles.

    Lancastrians are very strange..........they are a law unto themselves with this FH stuff.

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    • #22
      Ah, I wondered if they were related. Had you come across this Myles Sawrey before? I wonder what he was doing in New York?

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      • #23
        Okay, let's go back to basics.

        According to my info:

        Richard Gordon Sawrey is the son of Joseph and Mary, born in Ulverston in 1881. He married Katrina Ethel Marie Louise Williams, born in 1879 in Doornhook, Transvaal, South Africa, at Marylebone Parish Church, London, Middlesex in 1906. Their children are Bryan Richard Bridson Sawrey (b. 1907, Puebla), Myrtle Edith Sawrey (b. 1908, Puebla) and Kathlyn Frances Sawrey (b. 1913, Puebla). He died in British Columbia.

        Bryan Richard Bridson Sawrey married Mary Pellatt Armstrong (b. 1910, California) in 1932 in Chelsea. They both died in 1976: he in Seattle and she in Colorado. Their son was Richard Bridson Sawrey, b. 1941 in Venuzuela. And the tree goes on....

        Now, I've strayed off the beaten track so many times that my tree has over 1000 people! So I want to keep the focus on Joseph and Mary if possible.

        I'm a little confused, though, about Richard and Ethel's children. It's entirely possible that Bryan was an adopted nephew or something. And Patricia and Wilhelmina must be daughters. But he only had three children, so what about Myrtle and Kathlyn? It sounds like the two sets of girls are one and the same. So why the different names?

        I have no idea about James and Sarah Sawrey, or Richard Buchanan Sawrey Cookson. They must fit in somehow. I'll have a look for James' parents, see if I recognise any names.

        I don't have 1891/1901 censuses for Joseph and Mary either. I don't know when they emigrated but after Walter's birth is certainly a possibility. I have no record of Walter being abroad. He's an interesting character. His daughter, my great-aunt, is still alive and well. He was born in Plimpton but settled in Oxfordshire where he married a local girl and had four children, only to run away, change his name and start a completely new life. Unfortunately I can't really ask too many questions about him as, 80 years later, his daughter is still fairly devastated that he left. I still know very little about what he got up to after he left, except that he called himself Fred and died in Hertfordshire in 1974.

        I think that Joseph and Mary must have split up, don't you? A divorce without the paperwork.

        I still have to look into all this and sort it out, but I hope I've made some sense!

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        • #24
          Do you have birth certs for Richard and Walter? I'm getting increasingly confused about all this.

          These are the two Richard Sawreys born in Ulverston:

          Births Jun 1881
          SAWREY Richard Ulverston 8e 778
          Births Dec 1881
          SAWREY Richard Gordon Ulverston 8e 774

          The second one must be your Richard, son of Joseph and Mary, and the first one will be the son of James and Sarah, who I found on the censuses.

          The second one was born too late to be on the 1881 census; the first one might have been born in time, but James and Sarah appear with no children in 1881.

          I've found them with their son Richard in 1891 and 1901, but I can't find another Richard Sawrey or a Walter in the 1891 and 1901 censuses, nor can I find Joseph or Mary in any of the censuses from 1881 to 1901.

          This is presumably Walter's birth:

          Births Mar 1890
          Sawrey Walter Henry Plympton 5b 226

          What would they have been doing in that area?

          Joseph H Sawrey went off to the US in 1886, and it looks as though Mary followed with Richard in 1895 - presumaby she joined him when he got settled. They're both on shipping lists to New York, and she says she was heading for California, but they could have gone overland from California to Mexico. However, where was Walter? Have you found him on any censuses? Did they have any other children?

          I wouldn't think Mary and Joseph necessarily split up - Mexico and California are adjacent, so he could have been working or visiting there when he died.

          As far as Richard and Ethel's children are concerned, the submitted entry on the IGI names one of the girls as Patricia Myrtle Sawrey-Williams, born Puebla c. 1908, died Victoria, British Columbia c, 1992, and the other as Wilhelmina Sawrey-Williams, born Puebla c. 1910, died Victoria, British Columbia c 1975. I should think Patricia Myrtle is your Myrtle Edith, and Wilhelmina might by Kathlyn Frances, although the date of birth's wrong.
          There are no parents named for Bryan Richard Bridson Sawrey; I'd assumed he was the son of a male Bridson and a female Sawrey, but perhaps they just missed off the Williams at the end of his name.
          Unfortunately there's no way of knowing where the submitter got their information from, or how accurate it is.

          Where did you get the information about the Mexican births? From the contact you've lost touch with?

          As I said earlier, there are lots of Sawreys on the incoming passenger lists - I only looked for Joseph, Mary and Richard. There are a total of 84 names, some of them travelling more than once, including Richard's children.

          Your next step might be to do the following:

          1. If you don't have Ancestry, get the 14-day free trial and search the censuses again.

          2. Search the Incoming passenger lists, print out all the Sawrey entries, and try and sort them into family groups and trace their movements.

          3. Do the same with the Ellis Island, Castle Garden and ancestry.com passenger lists and border crossings.

          4. Search the overseas BMDs on findmypast to see if you can find the births of Richard's children and the deaths of Joseph and Mary.

          5. Search the US and Canadian censuses to see if you can find any of them.

          6. Search the US Social Security death index on familysearch.

          That should give you a better picture of who's who, and who was where, when.
          Last edited by Mary from Italy; 30-10-08, 17:34.

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          • #25
            Excuse me, Libby, but there is nowt strange about us Lancastrians!
            Helen

            http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...enSmithToo-296

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Helen Smith Too View Post
              Excuse me, Libby, but there is nowt strange about us Lancastrians!


              Tis too...................

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              • #27
                Hi again,

                Sadly, no birth certificates. I inherited a Family Tree Maker file and nothing else, from that side of the family. It had the info about the Mexican births – they may have used the same sources as us.

                I’ve got Joseph and Mary in the 1881 census, just the two of them living in Ulverston with one servant. He’s a foundry manager. Richard wasn’t born until November, so it’s unsurprising that he isn’t there.

                No idea what they were doing in Plimpton. Managing foundries? They seem to have had itchy feet! For that matter, what was Joseph’s father doing in Derbyshire? They’re all Lancastrians.

                Where’s Wally, indeed. He’s not in any censuses, which might suggest he went abroad soon after birth. But he isn’t with his parents. When I win the lottery, I shall upgrade to Ancestry World Membership. Another possibility is that someone else brought him up, a family member perhaps? Maybe he was too little to travel so they left him behind with someone, who called him their own in the census, and he was happy so he stayed there and grew up with them, maybe? I don’t know. As I said, he’s a mysterious character.

                No other children, as far as I know, and no record of early infant deaths, either. Which is surprising enough, given the lack of contraception. Most of the women of the time in my tree seem to have been producing a baby every 18 months from marriage until the menopause. Perhaps either Joseph or Mary had fertility problems. Perhaps they didn’t see one another often enough because of his work. Perhaps they were just very careful. Of course, there would have been others between 1881 and 1890 who did whatever Walter did.

                I have Ancestry, but, sadly, the rest of it will have to wait until after my exams and wedding this summer. I’ll let you know!

                As for James Sawrey, I’ve been tracing him back to see if he fits in my tree somewhere. He was born abt. 1854, Osmotherley, Lancashire. From the 1861, I’ve got his father as William Sawrey, born abt. 1819 in Ulpha, Cumberland. He was living in Kirkby Ireleth in 1841. I then switched to the IGI and got his baptism: 27 Nov. 1818 Ulpha, Cumberland. His parents are Myles and Ann Sawrey. Now, I might carry on with Myles… he must fit in somewhere if I go far enough back. But I’m fairly sure that I’ve heard him mentioned here, though I can’t remember by whom. This might be of use to someone. Maybe I should make a little announcement somewhere on the forum? I think I’ll do that.

                Thanks again for all your help.

                Laura

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by cooksferryqueen View Post

                  Sadly, no birth certificates. I inherited a Family Tree Maker file and nothing else, from that side of the family. It had the info about the Mexican births – they may have used the same sources as us.
                  I think you might do well to get Walter's cert at least, to be quite sure that he's the son of Joseph and Mary.

                  When I win the lottery, I shall upgrade to Ancestry World Membership.
                  I think you should be able to get the 14-day trial, even if you already have the UK Ancestry sub, but I'm not sure. Every so often Ancestry do a free 3-day trial which anyone can use - keep an eye out for announcements here.

                  His parents are Myles and Ann Sawrey. Now, I might carry on with Myles… he must fit in somewhere if I go far enough back. But I’m fairly sure that I’ve heard him mentioned here, though I can’t remember by whom.
                  I found a Myles Sawrey, resident in New York, travelling from England to New York on the Ellis Island passenger lists (which are free to search).

                  It's Libby (Harrysmum) who has a Myles Sawrey in her tree.

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                  • #29
                    I had a quick look to see if there are any Mexican resources online.

                    Our Wiki has some links you might try:

                    Central America - Family Tree Forum

                    Ancestry has some Mexican records, but they don't cover Puebla, and only a few parishes in Tamaulipas, where Tampico's located:



                    The new familysearch site also has some Mexican parish records, but I can't find any Sawreys:

                    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                    They probably have RC records, whereas you would need the civil or (possibly) Anglican records.
                    Last edited by Mary from Italy; 01-11-08, 15:17.

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                    • #30
                      Thanks, Mary!

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                      • #31
                        There are 10 more Sawrey entries on the Canadian incoming passenger lists:



                        You need an Ancestry World sub to view the full details, but you can view the name and place of birth with a UK sub.
                        Last edited by Mary from Italy; 01-11-08, 20:21.

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                        • #32
                          Thank you. :p

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