I know you like something interesting to do :)

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

What do you think, a contender or not ?

It's hard for me to answer that as I don't think the contender needs to have the name Bellamy at all, but.....if he is the father then I would doubt he came along for maud or Frances as he would be too young, but maybe for Fredk Samuel? Don't know about Willie as he didn't put a father when he married.

This looks like the birth reg for Samuel b Heavitree (that's in St Thomas district)



Births Dec 1865
Ballamy Samuel Francis St. Thomas 5b 58

So he's not a Fred....:(

[keb]

In the 1871 census, there were 10 male Bellamys in Devon born 1847-1857. Ballamys, 5. Barring mistranscriptions.

In the 1881 census, 9 male Bellamys born 1847-1858. Ballamys, 4. Plus one born 1854 who had moved to Durham.

There's a Frederick Wm Bellamy in Exeter in the 1881, born c1858 in Moreton Hampstead, just in case anybody's looking for a spare. He's a draper's assistant.

I so doubt that the children's father(s) was(were) named Bellamy.

And yes, Merry Monty I think it was -- you're right, we can't assume continuing workhouse residence between censuses!

[yogi82]

Thanks Merry,disapointing but I agree we can probably discount Samuel Francis on the grounds of age.

Have found a whole lot on workhouse fred from the lady in Exeter I mentioned, to much to re-type here but suffice to say we can trace him back to Charles Frederick Ballamy (alias Ballman) b.1822 and William Ballman b.1786 mother Mary, father John Ballman, spouse Susanna Holman b.1781.

I think that if we work on the basis that Ellen wasn't telling lies and you had to find a candidate of the right age ,the right location etc. it could only have been workhouse Fred, still I think we all have our opinions on that and I guess we shall never know for sure !

From A different angle the same lady unbeknown to me had also done some extensive digging around in Exeter following the line of Ellen Jane, again far to much detail to post here but she has traced back to a Matthew Bellamy m.1721 to Thomzin Steepe in Hittisleigh, ring any bells? should do ,it is where 'Black Sam Bellamy' the Pirate was born,I am just so excited about this I can hardly believe it, the hardest part is still to come in finding a connection to his family perhaps, but hey, how many Bellamys in a little village like that at the time ? I hope there turns out to be a link, fingers crossed !

[Tom Tom]

I think that if we work on the basis that Ellen wasn't telling lies and you had to find a candidate of the right age ,the right location etc.

But Rob, Ellen was telling lies! She wasn't married and lied about that. How can you decide which bits of the lie you think are true and which aren't?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I haven't said this directly before, but I feel a bit bothered that you seem to want to attribute all the Bellamy children to one man.

[yogi82]

Hi Merry, please don't be bothered, I have no idea whether he is the Father of them all, some of them or none of them ! what I am trying to say is that if Ellen and some of her children are telling the truth , then the likelihood is, all things considered, that he is the strongest candidate to be that man. I have now almost given up in trying to prove the link so its now more a case of probably never know and accept it so.

Oh! and Tom, as sure as I cannot be that Fred is our man, how can you be so sure that Ellen was telling lies ,the burden of proof unfortunately cuts both ways !

[Tom Tom]

Yes, but there are several hundred other men in Exeter who could have been the father of any one of the children. The chances of the one you have picked out being the father is rather slight, but as you say we will never know.

The fact she used the surname Bellamy is what bugs me. She was born a Bellamy so it doesn't make sense.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oh! and Tom, as sure as I cannot be that Fred is our man, how can you be so sure that Ellen was telling lies ,the burden of proof unfortunately cuts both ways !

The only lie I think we can be certain of is that she wasn't married when she registered Frederick Samuel and if by some miracle she was married (but we haven't found anything to support this), then she lied when she said she was a spinster in 1892!!

[sammyB]

hi sammyB here .I am new to this forum ,but i am very interested in finding out more on ellen jane bellamy.she was my great grangmother and married charles henry gard in 1892 this took place in exeter devon . look forward to hearing from anybody who could help. sammy b

[yogi82]

Hi Sammy B, I have only just gone back to this thread out of curiosity thinking it had run out of steam! I am Robin Bellamy and Ellen Jane was my Great Grandmother too, if you would like to have a chat please let me know via my e-mail address and I will give you my phone number, look forward to hearing from you,

Robin. (bellamy77@media-maker.com)