What's she holding?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Am I imagining things, or is there a photo of a woman on the right hand side of the thing she is holding, inside an oval shape?

OC

[Vicky the Viking]

Vicky,

his right arm is bothering me.....I can't see his hand....was he wounded in the war?

well, he WAS invalided out, but there is nothing on his record to say why, and I know he worked afterwards, so whatever it was can't have been too serious

What about one of their children getting married about 1832? or his retirement? You would definitely only go to a photographers for a special occasion, not just on a whim 'cos you fancied having your photo taken.

Children married: 1917, 1924 (London), 1925 (London), 1935, 1945(Birmingham), plus 2 in Canada. So I don't think it would be anything to do with them.

Did people retire at 65 then? and would it have been an occasion worth commemorating in a photo?
(he was definitely retired by 1938, as he married again - the cert says "constable in colliery (retd)"

OC - I can't see any definite images like a photo but I think there may be an oval with a logo or something in it. Reminds me of the sort of commemorative menus you get at posh functions. Now there's an idea...

[brenmac]

there is something inbetween her right thumb and the page like a disk.did she serve in the war as a nurse could it be a certifate of nursing?brenda xxx

[Meridian Line]

Vicky,

how about going about it from a different angle.

If its a proof, does another member of the family have a copy of the "proper" version. Does anyone else have any photos taken in the same studio, with, say that chair.
I believe photographic studios keep the negatives, if its from the 30s, the photographer might still be around, I wonder if there were other photos taken that day.

[Simon]

Yet another angle to consider is the shape and size of whatever it is that she is holding :

a) Current marriage / death certificates are printed on A4 paper wroughly 30 cm x 21 cm i.e the horizontal is 1.428 the length of the vertical.

b) The WW1 certificate MMM posted is 17.5 cm x 12 cm i.e the horizontal is 1.458 the length of the vertical. Given the inaccuracy of my measurements this may well be A4 as well.

However, it looks like the piece of paper, if it is a piece of paper, held in the photo is 6.5 cm x 2 cm i.e the horizontal is 3.25 times the length of the vertical. It is almost oblong.

[Vicky the Viking]

Simon, I think we had already eliminated a certificate; in any case, they have only been A4 since they have been computerised (in the late 1980's I think?). The older ones were approx 35.5 cm x 16.5 cm, ie ratio of about 2.15, so that doesn't fit anyway.

However, given the ratio you worked out, suggests it was designed to be folded in 2 or even 3 which suggests (to me anyway) something like a commemorative menu card.

She doesn't look "dressed up" though; surely if it was a "posh do", she would have put her best frock on for the photo?

[Simon]

Also what is strange is she doesn't seem to have any jewellery on. You would expect at least a necklace if it was a dinner....... or really any event / celebration.

Could it have been a funeral for one of his WW1 comrades which would explain his attire and her 'plainness'. Is she perhaps holding the hymn sheet / order of service ?

[Rachel Scand]

I'm still considering why it's a 'rough proof'


Could it be that they were trying out the pose before the event and then put on their finery at a later date, when they were satisfied that the outcome was going to look good


can't quite read what it says after 'rough proof' .... does it say 'order is to be executed' ?

[Vicky the Viking]

Rachel, I only have a scan of this, not the actual photo, so I can't make out the words either. It came from my second cousin, who got all the family stuff from her mother. She was probably the closest to Ruth (being her youngest daughter). Odd that she kept the proof and not the "proper" one. Perhaps they never went back for the finished version - possibly because it was taken only a couple of weeks before she died? You can tell I'm clutching at straws here!

Not sure about the "trying out a pose" - wouldn't you need to have the right clothes on for the try-out, to get the exposure right? And why would he bother to wear his SWB?

A funeral seems an odd reason to sit for a photo.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it and there wasn't a specific reason, they just thought they hadn't had a pic taken for a while, and as Don suggested the item she is holding is just for decoration

If I ever get chance though, I WILL trawl all the local newspapers just in case he got a mention for something or other...

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Those must be their final outfits as the wording reads:

ROUGH PROOF
NOT YET RETOUCHED
RETURN THIS PROOF IF
ORDER IS TO BE EXECUTED
YVONNES NEWCASTLE

[Little Nell]

I guess she is holding the paper (whatever it is) because it would look a bit untidy if he did, and lying on her lap it would stay still.

As for whether or not she is "dressed up" that might be her posh blouse, or she might have thought fancy clothes frivolous. Can't really judge.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Is that the same skirt in the proof as in the one with your dad? It looks a little shorter than it should when she is standing, but it has the same line four inches or so from the bottom.

[Pamdidle]

Well whatever it is she is holding, l think its a lovely photo.
Although they are not smiling (they never seemed to smile much years ago), they both have kind faces.
A nice keepsake