Solving a First World War Mystery...

[Rachel Scand]

But it looks like British uniform ... erm ... doesn't it

He could have borrowed the badge for fun and he's looking serious because he's trying not to laugh :(


here's a better one of the Essex badge


WW1 Essex Regiment Cap Badge. - £8.00 : Jusmilitaria, Specialists in Boer war and WW1 militaria

[Richard]

I have to admit Rachel, I'm no expert on uniforms, they all look a bit similar to me, I don't know if it's maybe because I'm colour blind so the different shades of grey arn't too distinct! I do seem to remember the Russian/Serbs wore stars, if I'm right, which is where that train of thought come from, what with the other photo being taken in the balkans, but no probably your right, I think odds on he is British.

[Richard]

Don.t here is the rescan of the lapels, if it helps at all:

[don.t]

not much but to me it appears to be of two components. The lower part would be the scroll work with the regimental name set in it whilst the upper portion would be the main body of the badge. In this case I think that it is in the form of an animal facing inwards and the more I look at it the more it looks like the badge of The Queens (West Surrey) Regiment, commonly called The Mutton Lancer's due to their badge consisting of the Paschal Lamb and flag.... but I am ready to be corrected .

don

[Richard]

Thanks again Don.t, there were 4 or 5 George Dixons in the Queens West Surreys on the M.I.C, and an Albert J, all could in theory be possible for great grans brothers. That said they are all privates, unlike the two in the photos, so probably not. I wonder would Essex men have been put in Surrey regiments (though the older brother Albert was born South of the river in Bermondsey, Surrey)? Forgive my ignorance on such matters!

[don.t]

On enlistment men would be placed where there was a shortage of man power which is why, no doubt, my own grandfather who was "born and bred" in the East End of London and served his attestation papers there, was placed into the Dorset Regiment.

don

[frostbarter]

My grandmother's brother was also born and bred in London and was killed in France serving with the Welsh Regiment.

Barbara

[Rachel Scand]

I had been thinking that Essex could have been included in Middlesex at that time

I have people on censuses who started off being born in the county of Middx and decades later it says Essex

The counties and their boundaries changed so frequently

[Richard]

Thanks for the replies. Don.t have been having a look at the Paschal lamb and am convinced that you are right in any case. Assuming this was not used by any regiments other than Queens West Surreys then at least for that photo I now have the rank of the men, their regiment, and where the photo was taken..alot more info than I started with, even if I'm still for now in the dark as to who exactly these chaps were.

[Richard]

Apparantly the 14th battalion of the Queens West Surreys did get sent to Salonika, and were the only one of the regiment sent, so may have narrowed it down a little further.

[maggies]

I have records for someone in the Queens West Surrey and he was born in Middlesex

[Paul Barton, Special Agent]

In the first photo is there any significance in the fact that they are not wearing the regulation leggings or webbing or belts? They seem to be on a farm. The horses are pulling agricultural equipment and those curved corrugated sheets piled up on the right hand side look like something used in a piggery.

[Richard]

Paul that's an interesting theory. I'd assumed it was at the front, because of the desolate landscape, ie the broken trees in the background which suggests at some point the area had been subjected to continous heavy shelling. The corrugated iron being material used for the trenches and dug outs, and with the horse also in the pic, I suppose this all backs up the theory they are Royal Engineers, as my great grandfather was also in the Royal Engineers, a driver, and his main duties were carrying troops to and from the front by horse, and building and maintining the trenches.

[Richard]

Brilliant think I may have had a breakthrough:

Went back to the envelope that started this quest, and noticed it actually looked like there was a middle initial. The signature is very small and squashed up but could just make out what look like an A or F. I knew he was born circa 1894 so went on the BDM's and found the only George Dixon registered in West Ham around that time was a George Frederick Dixon Jan-March q 1895.

Armed with this new info went back to the M.I.C's and found whereas theres hundreds of George Dixons only a couple of George Frederick Dixons. First one I bought up seems to have bought up the jackpot:

George Frederick Dixon
Reg: Royal Berks Regiment
Rank: Liuetenant (x) as Capt.
Medals: R.Berks R. X OFF 42 73 N7152/WDF 17/2/22 NW/5/12103

Theatre of War first served in: Salonica 15.7.17

back of card:
Applied for medals 13-6-21
e.jq.retd 8-8-21

adress: 27 Kingsdown Road, Leytonstone E.11

I'm 99% certain this is great grans brother from the address. The Salonica part also jumped right out at me, as there is the photo of the two Lietenants in Salonika I have posted here that were in great grans photos. Surely that can't be coincidence.

Don.t is it possible the insignia relates not to to the West Surrey Royals, but the Royal Berks Regiment?

As an aside, I have also found a wonderful item tonight on the other brother William in the London Gazette, seems he won the distinguished conduct medal one down from the V.C:

47147 Sjt. W. C. Dixon, R.F.A.

Conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty in extinguishing a burning ammunition
dump single-handed and at imminent risk of his life. He carried water in a dixie and a
petrol tin under fire, and amidst constant and violent explosions, until he had put out
the flames. The day before he had done magnificent work in extricating and attending
to wounded comrades in a wrecked dugout, working under heavy shell fire throughout,
and setting a splendid example to all inhis battery.

[Rachel Scand]

Wow Richard
That's fantastic news !!!!
I'm googling for Royal Berks Reg cap badges ... a bit confusing

royal berks reg + ww1 - Google Image Search

eBay UK Shop - Croft Militaria Collectables: INFANTRY REGIMENT, THE CAVALRY REGIMENT, British Badges

[Richard]

Hi Rachel, thanks for the links.

I also found this photo of a 2nd lieutenant in the Royal Berks Reg:

Alison L H 2nd Lt 1st R Berkshire Regt by World War One Photos (Artwork) in People

That said I still tend to think Don.t was right and it's the paschal lamb holding a cross on the insignia of the man I scanned rather than the Berks Dragon.

I think it's too much of a coincidence to have a photo of a 2nd Leiutenant in Salonika in great grans posessions, and to now find George was a leiutenant and served in Salonika. I suppose it's possible George is the seated man, and his insignia is different from the man standing who I used for the close up.

That said also found this photo reference on same site above:

Rossiter P 2nd Lt Royal Berkshire Regiment Attd 2nd The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) Photo

This suggests at least one other 2nd leiutenant in the Royal Berks was temporarily attached to the Queens Royal Surreys, and since battalions of both were in Salonika perhaps this was also the case for George?

[Richard]

Mystery solved it seems! The 2nd leuitenant on the right (seated) does appear to have different insignia after all:



I'm 99% sure that is the Royal Berks Dragon, you can see the little paw jutting up like in example below:

http://www.glamorganantiques.co.uk/cbimages/rer7front.jpg

So that is George identified once and for all I think!

I posted his Medal Index Card up on the 1914-18 forum, and was also given a link to the war diaries of the Royal Berks, he is mentioned several times, it appears to back up what the M.I.C says he arrived July 1917 is Salonica, Greece, where the photo was taken in great grans posessions, it also confirms Don.t the M.IC may say Leiutenant/Captian, but he was still a 2nd Leiutenant during his stint in Greece. Last definite mention of him is October 1917, so I imagine with him sending the envelope back home from France in December 1917, he was relocated to the Western Front between Oct and Dec. I've also been told good chance his records may survive at Kew, being an officer.

I did say at the begining of the thread I'm constantly amazed at the minor miracles done on here with the identifying of photos, often from the littlest of details. I only really posted mine up here on the off chance of a small breakthrough, wasn't expecting much, so absolutely overjoyed the amount of info I now have on great grans brothers as a result. Take my hat off to you all! Thanks again to everyone who helped Don and Rachel especially. It is very very much appreciated.