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  • Anyone else with old Quaker records??

    This is something I've been burying my head in the sand over, but now I feel I've got to try harder to get to the bottom of! Maybe you know the answer already?

    It's to do with the Quaker dating system.

    1st Month = January
    2nd Month = February etc

    No problems there, but............

    What about before 1752?? If our year began 25th March, then which month did the Quakers consider the 1st month? March or April?? I would imagine April, but that's only a guess, based on nothing in particular!


    Secondly, a long while ago I had been given details of a marriage by a County Record Office, stating a marriage took place 24th April 1752. I now have in front of me a copy of the actual page from the records of the Quaker Monthly Meeting and the date is given as 24th day of the ninth month 1752. Now as 1752 was the first year to begin in January (wasn't it?), I would take the ninth month to be September. I can't see any way that it could be forced to be April under any circumstances! Who else thinks I'm right?

  • #2
    Merry, I downloaded the birth record of Daniel Jeffcoat, my Quaker ancestor, from the BMD registers yesterday. The months were "7th", for example, with the name of the month in brackets.

    This was 1789. I don't know about prior to 1752. Could you e-mail the Quakers to ask them:

    Quakers in Britain - Contact Us (Library)

    Good luck with it all.
    Elizabeth
    Research Interests:
    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

    Comment


    • #3
      I haven't downloaded many Quaker records from BMD Registers yet, Merry - I thought I'd better take them slowly so I don't break the bank! But one of the ones I downloaded said "The 17th day of the 11th month called November 1758"

      I'll just have a look at the rest of the pages and see what else there is...
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

      Comment


      • #4
        Good luck Merry lol, I just read this and its confusing to say the least ..

        Quakers in Britain - The Quaker Calendar




        ]

        Comment


        • #5
          I have the following:

          "the 5th month called July 1747"

          "the 3rd month comanly called May in the year 1751"

          "the 6th month comonly called June in the year 1753"
          Last edited by KiteRunner; 12-05-08, 11:04.
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

          Comment


          • #6
            So, it certainly looks as though they counted March as the first month before 1752, and January as the first month after 1752. (unfortunately, I haven't got a 1752 date on my pages!)
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              I was rather mystified because my more recent Quaker records came up, but none of the older ones, and no marriages at all.

              I am lucky to already have the information, because two contacts and distant relatives have already done the research. They were both contacts of my mothers from the 1990s and both did their research in the 1980s and went to the library at the Society of Friends and saw the records in person.

              I have taken their research as fact, as they were so thorough, and I have personal contact with both. What I have downloaded so far just confirms the information they gave me. But it is lovely to have a photocopy of the birth entry of my Daniel Jeffcoat, and his father's death.

              However, nothing prior to 1772 for this family, although the records I have go back to 1660.
              Elizabeth
              Research Interests:
              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

              Comment


              • #8
                Kite, thanks for that! I will go with March then. I must go back over my earlier records to make sure they all follow the right pattern

                Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                I was rather mystified because my more recent Quaker records came up, but none of the older ones, and no marriages at all.

                I am lucky to already have the information, because two contacts and distant relatives have already done the research. They were both contacts of my mothers from the 1990s and both did their research in the 1980s and went to the library at the Society of Friends and saw the records in person.

                I have taken their research as fact, as they were so thorough, and I have personal contact with both. What I have downloaded so far just confirms the information they gave me. But it is lovely to have a photocopy of the birth entry of my Daniel Jeffcoat, and his father's death.

                However, nothing prior to 1772 for this family, although the records I have go back to 1660.
                Elizabeth, in your first paragraph above are you talking about BMDRegisters not having the marriages you were after? I have found several and some of those listed under the wrong words (place names instead of surnames, for instance!)

                The records at the Quaker library are fabulous. As well as all the BMD records, the Quakers went in for writing obits for society members and many of these give a little family history details too. However, you have to have a referece to even visit the library which is a bit daunting!

                I have just downloaded a burial record........I'll put it up on here in a minute....It's my best one so far as it gives instructions to the gravedigger to actually prepare the grave for my 5xg-grandmother!! Great stuff

                Comment


                • #9
                  Elizabeth Thackwell burial entry.jpg

                  I can just imagine Benjamin Merrifield getting his instructions and going along to the burial ground with his pick and shovel!

                  No problems with the date on this one, obviously!
                  Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 12-05-08, 11:31.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That's incredible, Merry! What a gem.

                    Yes, the BMD registers. I will go back and look to see what spellings my earlier Jeffcoats might be under. However, at £5 a lookup I think it's direct ancestors only. :(

                    I'm afraid that I have been rather lazy with my Jeffcoat family, because the information was handed to me on a plate by the two (now elderly) researchers.

                    One of them has written a book about his ancestors. It is meticulously researched. It gives transcription of the key will, which went to Chancery.

                    The information that came from that, with all the attendant affadavits, etc. was priceless. All the family members were given, and lovely snippets. For years this family had eluded the researchers, until the words "my friend ..." jumped out the page of the will and the researcher hot-footed it to the Society of Friends library in his lunch hour. Thus he was able to go right back to 1660, to Sibford Gower.
                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They have some odd methods when it comes to wildcards and Not exact matches so make sore you read the blurb about those.

                      I haven't been spending £5 for each one - just bought the £2.50 images. If the reason you are buying the transcript as well is because the images don't tell you the name of the "church" etc, then this can be fairly successfully found from putting the RG number into the search in The Catalogue on the TNA site. So, maybe you could buy the image first, then check the number from the Image on TNA and only buy the transcript too if the info you have been given from TNA isn't sufficient?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                        Thus he was able to go right back to 1660, to Sibford Gower.

                        Oooh, I've got Quaker rellies born there, and it's TINY! lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John Jeffcoat married Hannah Gilkes in 1697 in South Newington. She was born in Sibford Gower in 1664. He was previously married to Marjory Biggs.
                          Elizabeth
                          Research Interests:
                          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Merry, What surnames have you got?

                            I can look them up in the book I have which my contact wrote. I also have a couple of articles somewhere written by another contact - specifically about Quakers in Oxfordshire area.
                            Elizabeth
                            Research Interests:
                            England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                            Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Elizabeth, I expect you have the Quaker registers for that time/place, but if not I have, so if there's anything you need.....

                              I just checked....I have Banbury Quakers, Witney Quakers and (I have no idea why?) also Sibford C of E PR's!!

                              This is me and the two monsters in the Meeting House at Sibford Gower in August 2006.

                              Friends Meeting House Sibford Gower1.jpg

                              The old man in the photo had a very local name (won't post it as he is living - I hope!).

                              We had asked someone for directions, having driven straight past the Meeting House and the lady we asked phoned Mr X when she got home and he drove round from Sibford Ferris to see us and let us in to the MH. He was a font of knowledge about the local Qs. We went back to his house in the end and had a cup of tea with his wife and he got out a lot of books about the history of the area etc. Unfortunately an abcess on my tooth and the slight unrulyness of the monsters slightly marred our unexpected visit, but it was great in any case! Mr X saved us lots of time by being able to locate any gravestone in the graveyard within about three seconds! he has lived there all his life. I took the "fact" that his ancestor met George Fox with a pinch of salt though, especially as he said it was his great-grandfather! lol
                              Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 12-05-08, 13:00.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                                Merry, What surnames have you got?

                                I can look them up in the book I have which my contact wrote. I also have a couple of articles somewhere written by another contact - specifically about Quakers in Oxfordshire area.
                                That's very kind of you

                                Erm.....

                                Tyler 1680's onward (Banbury, Sibford, North Newington)
                                Lamb 1680's onward (ditto)
                                Walford 1750's (Witney)
                                Smith (sorry!) at Witney from 1780's

                                Could you tell me your names too as my Bristol Ancestor who spend 70 years doing his tree (I now have a copy) didn't confine himself to Gloucestershire, so you never know!
                                Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 12-05-08, 13:01.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  What a lovely picture, and I'm envious you went there. Another place to visit...

                                  I have just used a wildcard search "Jeffc*" and it looks as though it has brought up most of my Jeffcoats now. (Various spellings)

                                  There are 5 pages!!!

                                  I don't personally have any records, just the information passed on to me. However, I think I shall start work on this branch again, to provide the documentary evidence for my tree and to pass on. My elder daughter (also a member on here, but not very active as she has heavy work committments) would love to have the information.
                                  Elizabeth
                                  Research Interests:
                                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I am more than happy to look up anything you want checking (or whatever) on the records I have mentioned in the earlier post (as you know the Quakers were not especially numerous compared to the numbers of the rest of the population, so lookups are not onerous!). From memory they are all transcriptions (unfortunately) but could, perhaps, still be useful.

                                    Just pm me anytime!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Merry, I looked up your surnames, but the only one I could find were a few Smiths, but they were later on.

                                      I was hoping to find some LAMBS as one quarter of our tree is LAMB!

                                      My direct Jeffcoat ancestors married:
                                      Hannah Gilkes
                                      Rachel Adkins
                                      Mary Eaton

                                      and my Daniel married Anne Parrott from Waddesdon in Aylesbury in 1815. He was christened the day of his marriage, as she wasn't Quaker and they could only marry if he was christened.

                                      Other surnames are: Potter, Bonner, Bradley, Lowe and others.
                                      Elizabeth
                                      Research Interests:
                                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Merry,

                                        The records show that James Gilkes married Mary Lamb in 1684 in Oxfordshire.

                                        My Hannah Gilkes is on there - birth 1664 Oxfordshire.
                                        Elizabeth
                                        Research Interests:
                                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

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