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Martin Family, Bethnal Green. Assistance Needed.

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  • Martin Family, Bethnal Green. Assistance Needed.

    Further to my posting earlier this week, have gone back to a line I had given up on as nigh on impossible.

    My 4 x great grandfather was Thomas Martin of Bethnal Green 1831-1893, an ivory and bone turner his whole life. His father was another Thomas Martin, he a silk weaver aso of Bethnal Green.

    Given the locale, their trades, and the fact they married into my Bellengers who were fairly latecommers to U.K, and who were still using French churches/giving their children French forenames up to mid 1800's, have thought that there could well be a Huguenot link there too, but with the name so common could not prove it.

    Then, earlier this week found the following entry in a list of pupils paid apprenticeships from the French Huguenot School of Westminster (apologies to those who read my last thread for going over old ground!)

    1792 Jacob Martin, apprenticed to Jean Darby, Ivory and Bone Turner of Bishopsgate Rd

    I've now found out that the boys were apprenticed at age 14, and this Jacob Martin was the son of Charles Martin and Margeuritte Bohannah. This really interested me as I have recently helped a lady trace this family right back to France, and we speculated my Thomas Martin could well link up to them, as the village they are from St Honorine La Chardonne, is a neighbour to Athis De l'Orne where my Bellengers hailed from, and both families left at similar time.

    Now of course the difficult part is proving this. Don't want to jump to conclusions. I'm still very much having the probem of my Thomas's birth.

    Jacob Martin did have a younger brother, Thomas born 1784. This is the only Thomas Martin baptised in any of the French churches, as the forename not really common for the French.

    Probem is my Thomas appears on two Census 1841 and 1851. The first (of course a rough estimate to nearest five) gives around 1801, Thankfully he made it to 1851 and the census there gives a birth year of 1794/5 ish, place Bethnal Green. Even allowing a margin of era, I do not believe it possible/likely he was born before 1790 or after 1800. Therefore have provisionally ruled out him being Jacobs brother.

    Next thought then was perhaps he was the son of Jacob?

    I know from my Bellengers and tracing this Martin family for the lady mentioned before, that after 1790's during the troubled period of the French Revolution and Anglo-French wars, that our ancestors (the younger ones born in England) Anglicised their names and switched to the local Anglican churches.

    Jacob would I believe like Jacques then become James. Looking for a Thomas Martin, Bethnal Green 1790-1800, father James or Jacob, produced one hit:

    Thomas Martin 26 MAR 1797 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England son of James Martin and Sarah

    I suppose this is well within the 1794-1801, given by the two census. My Thomas also named his second daughter Sarah (first was named after wife).

    Jacob/James would be 19, in 1797 so not impossible for him to be the father, but only fitting marriage is for a James Martin and Sarah Manikee 11 November 1794, St Leonards Shoreditch. Though her name sounds as if it could be a French marriage, Jacob/James would be a bit young I think at 16 and half.

    I do wonder if I am perhaps simply trying to make the facts fit what I wish them too. Fact is there are eight baptisms for a Thomas Martin between 1790-1800 in that area, 4 in Bethnal Green, 3 in Shoreditch, one in Spitalfields. Since I don't know for certain his father was Jacob/James, he could I suppose be any one of them.

    I am now stumped! How do I narrrow it down further?

    Would be lovely if I was right, and I could tell the lady our families were indeed related, but not sure at all if I am ever going to be able to crack this for certain. Would certainly appreciate any opinions or suggestions on how to proceed.

    Richard
    Last edited by Richard; 06-03-08, 21:34.

  • #2
    If you could find a will then it might help. And names of witnesses off any marriage entries / certificates you can get. I do know that Martin is a very common name and it is very easy to follow completely the wrong family of that name if you're not careful!
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Problem is I've never found any wills for this side of the family, because they were relatively poor, which has been a blessing in some respects as they would have doubtful have appeared in the French Hospital Records otherwise, but doesn't bode well for wills, I imagine there was little to leave.

      I have had a look at the other 7 baptisms, and none of these appear to be of French descent. The James Martin Sarah Manikee seems to be. Just had a look and the Manikees were Huguenot, came over somewhat earlier though, 1680's, so may explain why by then happy to use the Anglican churches. They had 6 children between 1795-1806, incuding Thomas 1797.

      Another intriguing link, Just revisited my Thomas on the 1841 census, to check out his neighbours, and I instanty recognised the next door neighbour a Mary Burrows. She was one of 4 or 5 Patients of the French Hospital, that records related to the Martin family I researched for the lady previously. She was a cousin of their whose father came over with them....yet more proof of the link.

      It's so elusive all this circumstantial, but lacking that final bit of proof....
      Last edited by Richard; 07-03-08, 00:07.

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      • #4
        I know that feeling Richard - all circumstantial but lacking that last bit of proof. So maddening.

        OC

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        • #5
          Definently O.C

          Thing is with my Bellengers I now know my 6 x great grandad almost certainly came over around 1753, aged 3, returning briefly in the 1770's when he obtain his baptismal slip. When I researched for this lady found the same confusing process, her ancestor Louis Martin came over with brother Charles around 1753, from the very next village to Francois, then aged 14 and 9 respectively. For some reason Louis too returned in 1770's and obtained a paper copy of his Baptismal slip (his brother had him made a godfather 'in his absence' the same year in London confirming he was gone). Margeuritte Burrows their cousin, says her father David Collin also fled as a child, same area, around same time.

          Definently seeing a pattern, all four seem to have come around 1753, all without their parents, and all aged under 15 at that time. All seem to have been educated by the Westminster Protestant School (which was fairly small only took 30 children and was charity funded, so unlikey to be coincidental)

          I know the law of 'enlevement' kidnapping was being heavily imposed at that time in Normandy, and Mary Burrows confirms this in her record, saying her father escaped first to Jersey, then London, 'to escape the Catholics institutions and convents who were seeking to posess themselves of Protestant children at the time'.

          I think possibly in this atmosphere of hysteria, they were all smuggled out together in a kind of 18th century 'Kindertransport' for the local villages?

          That's my theory anyway...proving it another thing together.

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          • #6
            Digging up an old thread as I wondered if you have had any luck with your Research, Richard? You helped my cousin and me with our Martin family in St Honorinne.

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