Further to my posting earlier this week, have gone back to a line I had given up on as nigh on impossible.
My 4 x great grandfather was Thomas Martin of Bethnal Green 1831-1893, an ivory and bone turner his whole life. His father was another Thomas Martin, he a silk weaver aso of Bethnal Green.
Given the locale, their trades, and the fact they married into my Bellengers who were fairly latecommers to U.K, and who were still using French churches/giving their children French forenames up to mid 1800's, have thought that there could well be a Huguenot link there too, but with the name so common could not prove it.
Then, earlier this week found the following entry in a list of pupils paid apprenticeships from the French Huguenot School of Westminster (apologies to those who read my last thread for going over old ground!)
1792 Jacob Martin, apprenticed to Jean Darby, Ivory and Bone Turner of Bishopsgate Rd
I've now found out that the boys were apprenticed at age 14, and this Jacob Martin was the son of Charles Martin and Margeuritte Bohannah. This really interested me as I have recently helped a lady trace this family right back to France, and we speculated my Thomas Martin could well link up to them, as the village they are from St Honorine La Chardonne, is a neighbour to Athis De l'Orne where my Bellengers hailed from, and both families left at similar time.
Now of course the difficult part is proving this. Don't want to jump to conclusions. I'm still very much having the probem of my Thomas's birth.
Jacob Martin did have a younger brother, Thomas born 1784. This is the only Thomas Martin baptised in any of the French churches, as the forename not really common for the French.
Probem is my Thomas appears on two Census 1841 and 1851. The first (of course a rough estimate to nearest five) gives around 1801, Thankfully he made it to 1851 and the census there gives a birth year of 1794/5 ish, place Bethnal Green. Even allowing a margin of era, I do not believe it possible/likely he was born before 1790 or after 1800. Therefore have provisionally ruled out him being Jacobs brother.
Next thought then was perhaps he was the son of Jacob?
I know from my Bellengers and tracing this Martin family for the lady mentioned before, that after 1790's during the troubled period of the French Revolution and Anglo-French wars, that our ancestors (the younger ones born in England) Anglicised their names and switched to the local Anglican churches.
Jacob would I believe like Jacques then become James. Looking for a Thomas Martin, Bethnal Green 1790-1800, father James or Jacob, produced one hit:
Thomas Martin 26 MAR 1797 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England son of James Martin and Sarah
I suppose this is well within the 1794-1801, given by the two census. My Thomas also named his second daughter Sarah (first was named after wife).
Jacob/James would be 19, in 1797 so not impossible for him to be the father, but only fitting marriage is for a James Martin and Sarah Manikee 11 November 1794, St Leonards Shoreditch. Though her name sounds as if it could be a French marriage, Jacob/James would be a bit young I think at 16 and half.
I do wonder if I am perhaps simply trying to make the facts fit what I wish them too. Fact is there are eight baptisms for a Thomas Martin between 1790-1800 in that area, 4 in Bethnal Green, 3 in Shoreditch, one in Spitalfields. Since I don't know for certain his father was Jacob/James, he could I suppose be any one of them.
I am now stumped! How do I narrrow it down further?
Would be lovely if I was right, and I could tell the lady our families were indeed related, but not sure at all if I am ever going to be able to crack this for certain. Would certainly appreciate any opinions or suggestions on how to proceed.
Richard
My 4 x great grandfather was Thomas Martin of Bethnal Green 1831-1893, an ivory and bone turner his whole life. His father was another Thomas Martin, he a silk weaver aso of Bethnal Green.
Given the locale, their trades, and the fact they married into my Bellengers who were fairly latecommers to U.K, and who were still using French churches/giving their children French forenames up to mid 1800's, have thought that there could well be a Huguenot link there too, but with the name so common could not prove it.
Then, earlier this week found the following entry in a list of pupils paid apprenticeships from the French Huguenot School of Westminster (apologies to those who read my last thread for going over old ground!)
1792 Jacob Martin, apprenticed to Jean Darby, Ivory and Bone Turner of Bishopsgate Rd
I've now found out that the boys were apprenticed at age 14, and this Jacob Martin was the son of Charles Martin and Margeuritte Bohannah. This really interested me as I have recently helped a lady trace this family right back to France, and we speculated my Thomas Martin could well link up to them, as the village they are from St Honorine La Chardonne, is a neighbour to Athis De l'Orne where my Bellengers hailed from, and both families left at similar time.
Now of course the difficult part is proving this. Don't want to jump to conclusions. I'm still very much having the probem of my Thomas's birth.
Jacob Martin did have a younger brother, Thomas born 1784. This is the only Thomas Martin baptised in any of the French churches, as the forename not really common for the French.
Probem is my Thomas appears on two Census 1841 and 1851. The first (of course a rough estimate to nearest five) gives around 1801, Thankfully he made it to 1851 and the census there gives a birth year of 1794/5 ish, place Bethnal Green. Even allowing a margin of era, I do not believe it possible/likely he was born before 1790 or after 1800. Therefore have provisionally ruled out him being Jacobs brother.
Next thought then was perhaps he was the son of Jacob?
I know from my Bellengers and tracing this Martin family for the lady mentioned before, that after 1790's during the troubled period of the French Revolution and Anglo-French wars, that our ancestors (the younger ones born in England) Anglicised their names and switched to the local Anglican churches.
Jacob would I believe like Jacques then become James. Looking for a Thomas Martin, Bethnal Green 1790-1800, father James or Jacob, produced one hit:
Thomas Martin 26 MAR 1797 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England son of James Martin and Sarah
I suppose this is well within the 1794-1801, given by the two census. My Thomas also named his second daughter Sarah (first was named after wife).
Jacob/James would be 19, in 1797 so not impossible for him to be the father, but only fitting marriage is for a James Martin and Sarah Manikee 11 November 1794, St Leonards Shoreditch. Though her name sounds as if it could be a French marriage, Jacob/James would be a bit young I think at 16 and half.
I do wonder if I am perhaps simply trying to make the facts fit what I wish them too. Fact is there are eight baptisms for a Thomas Martin between 1790-1800 in that area, 4 in Bethnal Green, 3 in Shoreditch, one in Spitalfields. Since I don't know for certain his father was Jacob/James, he could I suppose be any one of them.
I am now stumped! How do I narrrow it down further?
Would be lovely if I was right, and I could tell the lady our families were indeed related, but not sure at all if I am ever going to be able to crack this for certain. Would certainly appreciate any opinions or suggestions on how to proceed.
Richard
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