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Brick Wall Down, but slaps self hard!

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  • Brick Wall Down, but slaps self hard!

    I have spent a wonderful couple of days kicking down one of my most persistent brick walls.

    All my 2 x greatgrandfather’s mother and brothers disappeared en masse from Wiltshire after 1861. For months I scoured deaths, ship passenger lists, without finding a sign of them, but I assumed they must have emigrated.

    They did - to Wales.
    It didn’t cross my mind to check the Welsh censuses, and if I hadn’t opened a Welsh census by mistake, I still wouldn’t have found them. :o:o

    So if there is anyone else out there who is as stupid as me – don’t give up hope.
    Those missing ancestors might be right under your nose!!!!

  • #2
    lol Bev!

    Some of mine went from Wilts to Wales between 1861 and 1871. And they changed occs from carpenter and ag lab to coal miners. Was there a recruitment drive, do you think?

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    • #3
      Oh Bev! Wot u like?!

      Still, all's well that ends well eh?
      Grampa Jim passed away September 2011

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      • #4
        *hangs head in shame*

        *but dances gleefully around the room because I added almost 50 to my tree*

        Good ones too - no coal miners, or Jones's!!

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        • #5
          I've found several of my rellies and non-rellies who lived in Gloucestershire went to Glamorgan to work in coal mines during later 19th century. I guess it was part of a general shift from agricultural labour to industrial labour.

          When looking for husband's Welsh lot I often find I am opening English census by mistake!
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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          • #6
            Congratulations Bev - you must be over the moon.

            *slinks off to look for Smith in Wales and Scotland*
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
              Some of mine went from Wilts to Wales between 1861 and 1871. And they changed occs from carpenter and ag lab to coal miners. Was there a recruitment drive, do you think?
              More likely that the wages were attractive. There were collieries in the Forest of Dean as well as in the Welsh Valleys.
              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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              • #8
                I have just had a similar experience. I found one of my grandmother's brothers had emigrated from Somerset to Scotland. I already had the names from a family will but it explains why I could not find BMD's.

                Our local mining museum in Radstock Somerset has recruitment posters for the South Wales mines offering free oilskins.
                Anne

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post

                  Some of mine went from Wilts to Wales between 1861 and 1871. And they changed occs from carpenter and ag lab to coal miners. Was there a recruitment drive, do you think?
                  There were recruitment drives all over the West Country. The coal and steel industry in the valleys was funded by rich Bristol merchants and there were posters printed and displayed in many towns offering work in the valleys.
                  Gwynne

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                  • #10
                    Interesting to learn that Gwynne.

                    I had several gt x3 uncles who disappeared. I thought they'd changed their name in shame over their elder brother (sent to Broadmoor - read about it in forthcoming FTF magazine) but they went to Glamorgan and I guess the combination of Glos accents and Welsh interpretation meant that all of them had different variants of the name, which altered with virtually every census/baby's birth registered!
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      Thats interesting Gwynne and maybe they did the same thing in other areas as a lot of mine left Staffordshire to work in the mines near Wigan in Lancashire..




                      ]

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                      • #12
                        Now there's the odd thing - they didn't do into mining!
                        Quite the opposite!

                        One brother was the superintendent of a huge industrial school. (I can't help but wonder what sort of so-and-so he was!). Another (instantly!) had a grocers business and ended up on local council. Even at the bottom end of their occupation scale, the brothers were coachmen and gas fitters.

                        As so often happens, this has generated as many questions as it has answered!

                        How did a family of agri labs, where in 1851 the widowed mother is a pauper, manage to set themselves up so quickly in Wales?? Did they speak the lingo? Did they come into some money? Did they have roots in Wales?

                        I haven't a clue at the moment, but I am absolutely delighted and fascinated by this family.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bev&kev View Post
                          *hangs head in shame*

                          *but dances gleefully around the room because I added almost 50 to my tree*

                          Good ones too - no coal miners, or Jones's!!
                          Lol Bev just noticed your post, well done with your recent additions and Im sure you will enjoy every second while researching them..




                          ]

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                          • #14
                            How did a family of agri labs, where in 1851 the widowed mother is a pauper, manage to set themselves up so quickly in Wales?? Did they speak the lingo? Did they come into some money? Did they have roots in Wales?

                            Well, English was spoken in Wales too! And maybe one of the chaps got settled and then helped the others. Perhaps they got a loan to get established, who knows?

                            My Glos brothers all worked in mines, but their sister went to Glamorgan, married, had a baby and then was widowed. She made ends meet by running a confectioner's shop.
                            ~ with love from Little Nell~
                            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                            • #15
                              Doesn't the Welsh census tell you which language is spoken? Welsh or English?

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Margaret in Burton View Post
                                Doesn't the Welsh census tell you which language is spoken? Welsh or English?
                                No. I don't think so anyway.
                                I did have a google on the subject - it seems that the mid-1800's was a time when the Government were trying to suppress the Welsh language and were forcing/persuading the Welsh into using English.

                                BUT, almost 50% of the population spoke Welsh as a first language, so I would still have thought that to run a business (especially as it was in a fairly rural area) they would have had to speak Welsh.

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                                • #17
                                  The 1891 and 1901 census do have the language spoken in the last column.

                                  Not the right year for you obviously.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Margaret in Burton View Post
                                    The 1891 and 1901 census do have the language spoken in the last column.

                                    Not the right year for you obviously.

                                    So it does Margaret, never noticed that before!
                                    Had a quick peek at one of mine, it says both, but he'd been in Wales for nearly 30 years by that time! More than long enough to learn it! (And he was married to a bilingual welsh woman!)
                                    Interesting that his children are all speaking English only though.

                                    Unfortunately, it doesn't give that info on early censuses.
                                    Last edited by bev&kev; 20-01-08, 14:07.

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