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  • Copyright Statement

    I am new to this list and I notice that many messages end with the following statement:

    "Information given in this posting is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

    I am puzzled by this. I can understand it if the message included the copy from a census entry or a BMD record but the information contained within the copy is not and cannot be copyrighted. The information contained within a census entry or BMD record, such as where a person lived, how old they were, even their name, are facts. Facts cannot be copyrighted, the only thing that can be copyrighted is the manner in which the facts are displayed and how they are collated - hence the reason that copies of the actual entry are copyright.

    Is there some other reason for the statement?

  • #2
    The reasons why a lot of us have included this in our signatures is to acknowledge the source of the information, i.e. BMD registers or census returns, which in themselves are Crown copyright.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Some of us have put the copyright statement in our sigs just to save the bother of trying to decide whether it is needed for each particular post - a kind of catch-all.
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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      • #4
        I'm sorry but I still do not understand. It's fine if you wish to acknowledge the source, and technically BMD certificates and census records are different sources, but the transcribed data is not copyright, except of course the message you send it in which is your copyright.

        As I said previously the only thing which is copyright is the actual certificate or census page and the fact that they are copyright prevents you from adding them to a message sent to a Bulletin Board or posted onto website without the permission of the copyright holder, namely the crown.

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        • #5
          I must say that I agree with Kirkstall. It is the images of the documents that are copyrighted, not the information itself. Placing such "catch-all" phrases acknowledging copyright on every single post seems a bit pointless in my opinion, especially as most postings don't actually contain any info that was from that source in any case!

          With regards to transcribed data then this may also be copyrighted, usually by the website supplying the transcription (Ancestry, FindMyPast, etc). Therefore in reality where info has been cut & paste from one of these sites, the copyright disclaimer should reference these sites, not the National Archives. But if you make a transcription of their transcription (rather than copy/paste) you have not technically breached their copyright. You may have breached their terms & conditions of your membership, however - but that is a different issue!

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          • #6
            A lot of posts on here contain "transcriptions of transcriptions" for the simple reason that the Ancestry transcriptions are often wrong.
            Michael, aged 1/4 of a century

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            • #7
              The reason so many of us have this message in all our posts is that it is in our signature and to change it would mean altering it for every posting, depending on whether or not it contained copyright material, which would be a bit long-winded.

              I was advised to have this disclaimer in my posts, but it would be good to have clarification from someone with legal knowledge.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                When I joined this site I was advised to add this information after my signature. I had posted a reply to someone's query either giving a BMD or a census entry.
                Elizabeth
                Research Interests:
                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

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                • #9
                  Apologies for the delay in responding to this query.

                  Our website policy is that we do not allow people to copy transcriptions from other databases, for example (but not limited to) Ancestry or FindMyPast, and post them on these forums.

                  These transcriptions are the copyright of the source and the format in which they are laid out is covered by Database Rights.

                  Any copying of these transcriptions is a contravention of their Database rights and we can have action taken against us for allowing it to be done.



                  We encourage our members to make their own transcription of anything they may find whilst helping another member in their research.

                  The most used format on FTF of this information is from census pages.

                  The census page in it's original format is the property of the National Archives and as such is Crown Copyrighted material.
                  The microfilm, microfiche or digital images of these, whatever source they are obtained form, are licensed for use by TNA to the websites and in this format still remain the property and copyright of TNA on behalf of the Crown. The websites copyright is limited only to their transcription of the contents and the set up of the database for searching it and not the images themself.

                  TNA advise that the Crown Copyright in it's unpublished material was waived in 1999 allowing the transcription, indexing and publishing of the content without any formal or written permission but that anyone doing so should identify TNA as the source and acknowledge the copyright.

                  As such, we are able to allow members to publish their own transcriptions of this material without the need for FTF to seek a commercial license as long as there is an acknowledgment that the transcription has been made from material owned by the TNA for the Crown.

                  Hope that has cleared the issue up.

                  Zoe
                  Last edited by samesizedfeet; 22-01-08, 02:11.
                  Zoe in London

                  Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                  • #10
                    Zoe

                    Thank you for this clarification. I should have looked at the Copyright Guidelines first!

                    However, I do not believe that enough guidance is given about BMD data.

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                    • #11
                      Kirkstall

                      Not quite sure what you classify as bmd data in this instance?

                      If you are referring to information given from GRO INDEXES such as

                      Joe Bloggs married Mary Smith Q4 8d 163

                      then I do not think there is any infringement of copyright involved here. You have merely extracted a tiny piece of information from the database.

                      Many non-GRO indexes give more detailed information - the ukbmd site for example and again, it is only the database which is covered by copyright, not the individual event.

                      All civil registrations are in the public domain, and although you need to purchase the certificate to get to the real detail, the event itself is a public one.

                      Bmd certs themselves have "copyright" printed on them somewhere. This means you cannot publish the WHOLE certificate without the prior agreement of the Crown. But you can publish "small amounts for research purposes".

                      "Small amount" appears to be generally accepted as not more than ten per cent! Most people on this site reproduce only a part of the cert and obscure the rest. I am sure neither the GRO nor the Crown lose any sleep over this habit.

                      OC

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