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Thread: Irish research

  1. #11
    Member jennie's Avatar
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    Thankyou Zoe and everyone i think i will give her this one back and tell her to have a nice holiday lol.
    Jen

  2. #12
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    Jennie,

    Zoe seems to have put it it all in a nutshell for you. Will just say that for Kerry and Cloyne all you need is written permission from the Bishops of those Diocese to search records at Dublin Library BUT for Cashel and Emly Diocese, which embraces all of County Tipperary as well as parts of County Limerick, is a total "No Go" area for everybody! In other words for these areas, you will have to pay the Tipperary Heritage Society a minimum of £30 to £300 to research info for you! The only way around this one is to go to Ireland and stay in a B&B and go round all the parishes cap in hand and a donation to each one.

    Irish Tracing will depend very much on the knowledge you already have. If you have just a name and Ireland then you must do some more work to get them into a county at least, before you can even consider tracing Irish ancestors.

    I do have Irish cousins who expect their English cousin to do all the work! But still, I do have stories that I can follow up. I have traced family in Tipperary but I had an idea where they were from, so I did spend some time in a B&B where I was introduced to the priest of the parish and I found a lot of my ancestors in this one place back to 1798, but I am lucky in having some knowledge to start with. However, I have come to a grinding halt on one side as a marriage of about 1826 and two sibling C's about 1833 and 1831 took place in another parish and I am not long back from Ireland having been around another 6 parishes, given donations to each parish and found nothing! Very disheartening.

    I would say that Irish Tracing is best done in Ireland but there are a surprising amount of records in the UK if you know what you want.

    Remember Ireland was part of the UK until 1922 and they did not leave the
    Commonwealth until 1949 so things like:

    Army records are at Kew
    Navy Records are at Kew
    Royal Irish Constabulary Records are at Kew
    Seditious Records can be looked at through the House of Lords Library
    Irish Newspapers can be looked at in Colindale Newspaper Library, though for how much longer is now debateable!
    The Guardian is now online and searchable and there was/is a big Irish following in Manchester so the Manchester Guardian of the late 1800's has much material of an Irish nature in there.

    You can pull in from any LDS Centre those records for post 1864 but as Zoe has already said pre 1864 is Parish Records excepting a few Protestant Marriages from 1845.

    It is back to you Jennie. Just how much do you know about these Irish relatives already?

    Also remember that Ireland was a very open Catholic Country and fiercely hung on to their Catholic traditions, but because Catholicism was an "outlawed" religion until the Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829 many Irish records did not start until the 1820's. There was some leniency in the late 1700's, so a very few records go back to approx 1740 but it will be very difficult to get back that far in Irish FH.

    Protestant records do go back to the 1600's but as most of these were in Dublin NA at the time of the Forecourts Fire of 1922 then many of these were destoyed. Those that have survived are in the Dublin National Archives. The Catholic records survived because they were never in Dublin but were and still are with the Catholic Churches all over Ireland with microfilm copies in Dublin National Library.

    My own interests are Cork County/Offaly and Tipperary and I belong to Cork and Tipperary Genealogical Societies which have been very helpful but mainly for the general history rather than the actual records I get

    Janet
    Last edited by Janet; 04-01-08 at 19:26.

  3. #13
    Member jennie's Avatar
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    Hi Janet. This is for a friends mum. I don't know anything as yet about them but have just been asked if i could do this part of the tree. I think i am going to have to see how much information she can give me and if it's not much then appologise and run away from it. I have printed out the advice you have all given so that if i do have to run she can see that it's not as easy as researching in England. thankyou very much, i didn't think doing Irish people would be easy.
    Jen

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    Tracing the Irish is difficult..but it can be done even with a little knowledge..as long as you know where a relative came from.

    I obviously knew that my Mum and her sisters were born in Dublin City and I knew the names of my grandparents .... and nothing else!

    Mum and her sisters had passed away long before I started my research. except for her youngest sister who is in a home suffering from dementia.

    Knowing that Mum's eldest sister was born in Dublin in 1914 I sent of an aplication form for the marriage certificate of my Grandparents to the Dublin records office and 3 months...yes 3 months later it came back! This was 3 1/2 years ago...they are much quicker now. Luckily it had my Grandmother age on it..she was 19. and Grandpop was the dreaded 'of Full Age'. They were both living in Dublin City.

    I then sent off for my Grandparents' birth certificates as at least I knew who their fathers' were. Another 3 months wait and their birth certificates came back.

    We're cooking on gas now! Have both sets of Gt Grandparents names. WOW! I though..this is getting good.

    I then found 2 of my Gran's siblings on the IGI records...they were 20 and 15 year older than her! Being of the Catholic faith I just knew there had to be more..but who and where were they. These 2 siblings were born in Co Dublin not Dublin City. So I was at a standstill now. Oh deary me I thought...or words to that effect! I was really stumped.

    18 months ago I was talking to my cousin (whos mother is my mum's youngest sister in a home suffering with dementia) and I was telling her I was trying to trace our Irish side of the family. Luckily she just happened to have her Mum's address book with her. Well Susan, my cousin said that there were some relatives of her mum's in the address book..but she didn't how they were related. One lived in the USA and the others were all over here in England..with phone numbers. My phone biill went up quite a bit then!

    So I had found 4 descendants of one other sister of my Grans.

    I also wrote to the relative in the USA. She turned out to be the daughter of one of my Mum's cousins...Oonagh, bless her. She sent me photo copies of all her family's BDM's and a Baptism certificate of her Gran, Martha Brady..another sister of my Gran. PLUS the death certificates of my Gt and GT Grandfather Brady. She also told me that our Gran's mother had 20 children, but not all survived. I was a bit unsure about that..you know how family tales get exagerated.

    Well blow me if the 1911 Dublin City census showed that they had 18 born alive and only 8 living at that time.

    Back in the early summer of 2007 I splashed out and hired a researcher in Dublin to check out the Rathmines Parish records for me as Martha was married there and also St Kevins in Dubln City where Martha was Baptised .

    Bingo! He found my Gt Grandfather's marriage and that of 3 other of his siblings plus the baptism of another sister of my Gran's in Rathmines.

    St Kevins Parish register revealed my Gran's Baptism plus that of 5 others!

    So I now know for sure that my Gran and 2 other sisters survived, married and have descendants. One brother was still alive in 1911, at home, aged 21 and single.

    My Irish grandfather's family was revealed to me by another of Mum's cousin's daughters in the USA who I found on Ancestry.com It took a bit of convincing of who I was but I was able to tell her her Mum and Dad's name and old address as Mum used to write to them when she was alive. We have a Pollard Cousins website and found a few more descendants in Ireland, Australia, Wales and London. Loads of photo's swapped between us all and a cousin of mine who lives in Oz went and met our second cousin in Oz back last year!

    A very long slow process...but we are getting there!

    I hope this gives some encouragement to others tracing their Irish lineage.
    teresa

  5. #15
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    I do like a good news story, Teresa ....it is encouraging that you have found out as much as you have.

    My fact finding has come in fits and starts, too...handicapped by the fact that my dad wouldn't really talk about his family (yes, I was fascinated by the Irish connection, even as a child and used to ask heaps of questions), my mother hated her m-i-l and there was a whole batch of cousins of my father's living in the same city, of whom I had no knowledge apart from some names, nicknames and blurry photos in an album.

    Serendipity has played a very big part in what I have discovered and I now know quite a lot more than I did when I started......but there a great dollops of luck still required.

    Beverley




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    Glad you enjoyed my story! It's been a hard slog and very time consuming..but it has paid off...to a degree.

    Still got lots of things to find out about my Grans siblings. Like, who are the other 6 missing children, which ones died and who were the other 4 that were still living on the 1911 Dublin City census as I only know of 4 of the 8!

    The Baptism and Marriage Parish records revealed other people that could be relatives with the same surnames that are also connected with my Brady family..could be aunts, uncles, sisters or sister-in-laws. So I won't rest until I can find out more.

    Talk about never ending story!
    teresa

  7. #17
    Some useful records are on the BVRI - you could ask someone for a look up on it. That's where my gt-gt-grandparents' marriage appeared which was brilliant (Church of Ireland 1848).

    Subscribers to rootsweb mailing lists have been very helpful to me. Several years ago, I posted on the list for Galway about my family; on that occasion, there was little response. However, about four years later, I received an email from someone who, whilst searching microfilm at an LDS Centre, had noticed the birth registration of my great-great-uncle
    Joy

  8. #18
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    It is good to see that some of us have good results from Irish Tracing, however I would like to flag up a few possible pitfalls.

    It really is ESSENTIAL to have more than Edward O'Neill Ireland if you have any hope of tracing.

    The BVRI and IGI accounts for about 20% only of all Irish Records. This is mainly because Ireland was always a mainly Catholic country with about 80% Catholic and the Bishops refused permission for most Catholic records to be filmed by the LDS. Those that are on the IGI are mainly submitted and not extracted from church records. Out of about 300 of my own Tipperary and Cork ancestors only 4 are on the IGI and all those 4 have been submitted with incorrect information.

    I, along with many others have been looking forward eagerly to the arrival of the Irish 1911 and 1901 Census online and free. However this months Ancestors magazine has just given me food for thought on this one.The following information has been taken direct from February 2008 Ancestors Magazine:

    "At long last the news that eveyone woith Irish ancestorshas been waiting for: The National Archives of Ireland has started making the 1911 Census available online at:
    National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911 and its entirely free of charge. Currently only Dublin is covered, but the other counties will be added in the next few months, followed by the 1901 Census. The Census can be searched by name,age,gender,townland or street, and district electoral division(DED). The DED can also be browsed. UNFORTUNATELY it is NOT POSSIBLE to SEARCH by BIRTHPLACE, and the BIRTHPLACE is NOT LISTED in the initial search results. This is NOT a problem when the site has only Dublin records, but once all the counties are available, searching for a COMMON NAME may be quite rime consuming.

    In this census there is not just a single page for each household but four."

    If you have Dublin ancestors you may also want to look at the 1862 Dublin Street Directory recently put online by Library Ireland at Dublin Street Directory, 1862


    The implications will be huge if you will not be able to access by birthplace as trying to find Michael Sullivan without knowing which one you will be interested in will throw up thousands. The jury will have to wait and see what happens when the next lot come out.


    Janet

  9. #19
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    Oh, that reminds me of the census search on Scotland's People, which didn't (still doesn't?) allow birthplace search. The difference being, of course, that you have to pay on Scotland's People. There are quite a few of my rellies who I never found on the Scottish censuses until ancestry's index became available - it does let you search by birthplace (though of course they may be mistranscribed). If your family never moved from where they were born, like so many families, then it will be fine, but if they did move, not so easy!
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

  10. #20
    Member JBee's Avatar
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    Unfortunately many of my lines just have the name and Ireland and born pre registration!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A more recent one I have her name, no birth or marriage certificate only a death certificate with age considerably different to 1901 census age!!!! Only her childs birth certificate gives her maiden name!!!!



    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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