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**Katarzyna** · 04-01-20, 23:40

I just noticed that the birth is registered for March Qtr 1858 yet the baptism gives the birthdate as 27th Aug.

I have a death for Louisa at 10 years old for 1867.

Uxbridge & W. Drayton Gazette 29 October 1867 Death Louisa Killik.JPG

**teasie** · 04-01-20, 23:43

I haven't looked too closely into this as yet, but the father is named as Manuel Joze Machado (edited for spelling), and there is a long PCC will for him dated 1825 & proved 1826.

The witness appears to be Ann Rosetta Radburn, who appears to have been baptised 3 Mar 1815 to Thomas & Rosetta Radburn & died a spinster in 1898. Her mother Rosetta Radburn may be in Alfred Place, St Giles In the Fields in 1841, aged 48 & independent. I havent read Manuel's will to see if she is named.

**teasie** · 05-01-20, 00:13

There is also a PCC will dated 1850 & proved 1852 for Rosetta Radburn in which she mentions her daughters Ann Rosetta, Eliza & Mary Radburn & a name I cant quite make out but seems to end in 'a' with the surname Kellik.

**teasie** · 05-01-20, 00:49

I think that will may be a different man - the father perhaps - as in the Morning Post of 8 July 1845 there is an article on page 6 headed 'Sudden death of a Portuguese Gentleman' about an inquest on the body of Don Manuel Jose de Gama Mashado (sic) aged 75, a Portuguese gentleman of independent fortune, resident in this country about 40 years but not naturalised. His landlady Rosetta Radburn said she had known him for 32 years, and he had boarded & lodged with her.

Added: Ive found a PCC will for him too, as Manoel Joze Da Gama Machade, and although I haven't read all of it (its not easy!) he mentions Rosetta early on.

**teasie** · 05-01-20, 01:11

I'm out of time to update my last post, but the will of Manoel Joze Da Gama Machade also mentions Ursula Emilie, and also seems to provide for any children she may have, should she marry.

**teasie** · 05-01-20, 01:24

I wish this site would give a little more time to add/edit!

Looking again at that 1841 census, I thought the child (aged 15) with Rosetta was named Mary, but what I thought was the tail of the 'y' is actually something from the line below, so it may well be Ursula. Its not much more than a squiggle really.

1841 Radburn.JPG

**Olde Crone Holden** · 05-01-20, 09:31

Just quickly throwing this in - is it possible the birth registration year is an example of some of the many GRO indexing errors? There is a list somewhere and it runs to many hundred of thousands of events catalogued in the wrong years or quarters etc.

As I said, just an idea!

OC

**Katarzyna** · 05-01-20, 15:22

OC. Yes I think you are right. I have seen a lot about that on various sites esp. Lost Cousins.

Teasie - Thanks so much for those findings. It looks like Ursula's father probably was Machado if he had boarded with Rosetta all that time.

"There is also a PCC will dated 1850 & proved 1852 for Rosetta Radburn in which she mentions her daughters Ann Rosetta, Eliza & Mary Radburn & a name I cant quite make out but seems to end in 'a' with the surname Kellik"

This is probably Ursula Killik - she married Henry Killik in 1849.

One of the reasons I am looking at this is that Henry Killik's Grandparents are my 5th Gt Grandparents - John Joseph Killik and Ann Radborn/Radburn/Radbourn and was wondering if Ursula was related to my Ann somehow. I have two instances of endogamy within the Killik family.

I will now try to find these wills - thank you.

**GallowayLass** · 05-01-20, 16:56

Very interesting thread. Looking forward to seeing how it all works out. I would be jumping up and down spitting feathers if I discovered I had twin ancestors whose two forenames were the same but simply reversed for one of them.

**teasie** · 05-01-20, 18:00

What I also missed on that 1841 census is what I assume now to be Manoel Joze Da Gama Machade/Machado at the same address, but the handwriting is poor and it looks more like Nath Machady aged 70, Occupation: Ind[ependent means], born F[oreign Parts].

By 1851 Rosetta is with daughter Ann Rosetta at 6 Tavistock Street, St Giles in the Fields
Rosetta Radburn 62 Annuitant b Gloucestershire
Ann Rosetta Radburn 35 Daur b London
Eliza Waters 11 Granddaur b Middx

WATERS, ELIZA ROSA MANESTY mmn RADBROIN GRO Ref: 1840 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS AND ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 58

I'm assuming 'Radbroin' should be Radburn, as per the following:
WATERS, JOHN mmn RADBURN GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 60

Tracing Rosetta & Thomas back, a witness to their marriage was John Joseph Killik:
11 Oct 1806, Parish Chapel St Pancras
Thomas Radburn & Rosetta Holbrook
Wits: John Joseph Killik & Mary Ann Holbrook

**Katarzyna** · 05-01-20, 22:10

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

Very interesting thread. Looking forward to seeing how it all works out. I would be jumping up and down spitting feathers if I discovered I had twin ancestors whose two forenames were the same but simply reversed for one of them.

They obviously loved those names!

Originally posted by teasie View Post

What I also missed on that 1841 census is what I assume now to be Manoel Joze Da Gama Machade/Machado at the same address, but the handwriting is poor and it looks more like Nath Machady aged 70, Occupation: Ind[ependent means], born F[oreign Parts].

By 1851 Rosetta is with daughter Ann Rosetta at 6 Tavistock Street, St Giles in the Fields
Rosetta Radburn 62 Annuitant b Gloucestershire
Ann Rosetta Radburn 35 Daur b London
Eliza Waters 11 Granddaur b Middx

WATERS, ELIZA ROSA MANESTY mmn RADBROIN GRO Ref: 1840 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS AND ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 58

I'm assuming 'Radbroin' should be Radburn, as per the following:
WATERS, JOHN mmn RADBURN GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 60

Tracing Rosetta & Thomas back, a witness to their marriage was John Joseph Killik:
11 Oct 1806, Parish Chapel St Pancras
Thomas Radburn & Rosetta Holbrook
Wits: John Joseph Killik & Mary Ann Holbrook

Yes, found that earlier this evening and feel sure there must be a connection there.

I found this too.
Burial: Thomas Radburn
14 Aug 1823 • Westminster, Middlesex, England
St George Hanover Square,

Age 46 so born c1777 which would be about the right timeframe. If he died suddenly it's possible he hadn't written a will - leastwise I haven't found one yet.
His death would have been after the births of Ann, Eliza and Mary Ann but before Ursula b c1828 so probably very likely she was Manoel Machado's daughter.

Still trying to decypher these wills :(

St George Hanover Square,

**Katarzyna** · 05-01-20, 23:02

Manoel Joze left three thousand pounds to Ursula Emilie

- she is mentioned way before Rosetta and the other children in the will. It is difficult to read. That was a lot of money in 1845.

**teasie** · 06-01-20, 00:08

Oh yes, I didn't see that! She is mentioned a few lines above Rosetta's first mention.

I struggled to read it, but I thought she only received the dividends & interest? I normally only start to understand these long ones properly if I transcribe as I go... which can take me days!

How did you read his description of Ursula? I thought he said 'friend', but again, I could very well be wrong!

**cbcarolyn** · 06-01-20, 08:40

fascinating, i see that it is 360k in todays money, do you know how he got his money?

and just amazed that the twins had the same set of names....just like dressing them the same, went to whole hog.

**Olde Crone Holden** · 06-01-20, 10:12

My friend was born of a twin called May Mary. The other one was called Mary May. Long story, but my friend's father married both of them but didn't bother telling anyone!

Sorry Kat, completely irrelevant!

OC

**Chrissie Smiff** · 06-01-20, 10:19

Oh dear....I know it's off track but I wonder how many of you are fascinated like me and want to know more i.e. When you say didn't bother telling anyone, did the girls both know? Perhaps we need a new thread on General for this lol.

**Olde Crone Holden** · 06-01-20, 13:27

Will do Chrissie!

OC

**Katarzyna** · 06-01-20, 14:20

Haha! go girls. I have others to add to that list too.
Meanwhile can someone help me fill in the gaps in this extract from the 1845 will. I would particularly like to find the address of the college in Kings Road. The only one I know of there was Whitelands College which eventually became Roehampton :D

will.JPG

( Money etc etc left to Anna Walpole ) …………………………………….
Walpole the wife of Edward Walpole Esquire the dividends or interest
whereof is to be paid to her for and during her natural life in man-
ner ________ mentioned and as to the sum of three thousand pounds
further part of the said ____ for the benefit of my ____ Ursula Emilie
Radburn spinster ___ residing with Miss? Slaid? and Miss Little? at the
College _____ ______ Place Kings Road Chelsea the dividends or int-
erest whereof is to be paid to her for and during her natural life in a
manner also _________ mentioned. And as to the residue of the said
______ for the benefit of Rosetta Radburn of No4 etc etc....

Teasie you were right - dividends and interest only.

**cbcarolyn** · 06-01-20, 15:15

I can't decide if the lettering is faded or whether they are foreign words with accents?

Trying to make the Ursula word a term of endearment.

college looks *aix Rainier plare ? which clearly makes no sense!

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