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Hidden details in a family photograph

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  • Hidden details in a family photograph

    First a little success story then a challenge to solve...

    This is a family photo of my Dad's cousins taken some time between 1920 and 1927. An older relative told me who the adults were so I was able to deduce who the children must be but not which one was which. One slight problem though, I had names and DOB for 9 children but there were only 8 in the photograph.



    So, wondering where the missing child could be I spent a long time looking for death dates for each of them but came up with nothing, I had evidence of life beyond childhood for each of them. So this has been on the back burner for some years until I decided to have another look today. Whilst zooming in to see the details I discovered what I think is evidence of the missing (youngest) child. Can you see it?

    The second problem to solve is to decide which child is which? The two adults seated in the middle are Jeanette and James Johnston. Their children were James b.1915, Alexander b.1916, Albert b.1918, Kathleen b.1920 and Lillie b.1922. The other couple, the man standing on the right and the woman seated on the right, are Florence and Fred Bridge. Their children were Fred b.1914, George b.1916, Lillie b.1918 and Donald b.1920.

    So, if anyone fancies having a stab at which is which I would love to hear your thoughts.
    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

  • #2
    looks like a child behind third child from the right ?

    Comment


    • #3
      No, I don't think so.
      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

      Comment


      • #4
        I can see what Val is seeing and it looks very like a baby's face.

        OC

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        • #5
          I can't see that. Can you describe more where you are seeing it?
          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

          Comment


          • #6
            There looks to be a pram behind the lady on the left's deckchair and a glimpse of sunbonnet.

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            • #7
              That's what I thought, Jill, and it would explain the 'missing' child and dates the photo at around 1922 when the youngest child, Lillie Johnston was born.

              So, just need to figure our who's who with the rest of them now!
              Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not seeing a pram, I'm seeing a deckchair!

                Between the man's left leg and the woman's elbow is a white "blob" which looks like a hat with a baby's face underneath it.

                OC

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                • #9
                  Yes, far left at the back is what looks very like the typical frame of a baby carriage of the time and maybe the white peak of a baby bonnet showing above the frame as the hood is down. You can make out the folded down hood sitting on the body of the pram.
                  Last edited by GallowayLass; 19-12-19, 01:00.

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                  • #10
                    Here's my guess, for what it's worth: I agree that it does look like a pram behind the deck chair on the left, and assuming that this contains the baby Lillie and therefore the photo is dated to 1922, that gives us approx ages for all of the other kids at the time it was taken. Estimating the ages of the kids in the photo, using family resemblances, and assuming that the younger kids are sitting near their mothers I have come up with a possible interpretation. Of course, there is no way of proving it one way or another however!

                    Zoom in on the image to see my annotations.

                    cheers
                    Richard
                    Johnston-family1.jpg
                    Last edited by Richard in Perth; 19-12-19, 06:52.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow! Thank you, Richard. Unfortunately I still haven't earned my wings so I can't open your attached photo to see what you have worked out If anyone can repost Richard's image in a way that I can see it that would be great. If not I'll have to wait until I have been fully approved ;)
                      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah, I've just noticed that Richard is online. I assumed that Australia was aslepp.

                        Richard, can you repost the image, please?
                        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          to me the hidden child is between the gentleman with the cigar and the last woman on the right behind the child marked lillie 4
                          Brian
                          avatar is my paternal grandmother Hazel May Sheridan (Coles /// Callaghan)
                          researching Coles/Sheridan from Broken Hill Callaghan from Sydney P.J O'Flynn M.J Campbell from County Clare plus others as they pop up

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 2weis View Post
                            to me the hidden child is between the gentleman with the cigar and the last woman on the right behind the child marked lillie 4
                            Brian
                            I think that is a giant bow in the hair of the little girl we can see. It was the height of fashion in the 20s to have very large hair bows.
                            I had not seen the pram until it was pointed out but I think that could be right. Mind you the youngest child sitting there was perhaps of the right size for a pram? They sat them in them until they were toddlers.
                            Anne

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                            • #15
                              Sorry - don't know why you can't see the image I posted. Try again here:

                              Johnston-family1.jpg

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I agree with Anne that the white object behind the 3rd child from the right is probably a bow in her hair. Zoom right in and it doesn't look like another child. Also, you can see part of the frame of the deckchair below it (immediately to the left of the girl's neck), and this wouldn't be visible if there was a body there!

                                GardenGirl are you sure that the seated gent in the middle is the father of the Johnston family? He looks a bit old to have such a young family, and I would have thought that the father is more likely to be the chap standing behind him to the left. Perhaps the older chap is a grandfather?

                                Unfortunately I don't think you'll ever get a definitive answer as to who's who in the photo. Do you have any other photos of any of them with which you could compare (even if taken a few years later)?

                                Richard
                                Last edited by Richard in Perth; 19-12-19, 13:18.

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                                • #17
                                  try just clicking on this link, it might work.


                                  I think 10 days membership is the magic time.
                                  Last edited by cbcarolyn; 19-12-19, 14:53.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    My only comment is the ones marked Donald and Lillie appear to be wearing the same clothes - although maybe only in black and white! so could be related.

                                    How are the adults related? Sisters?

                                    Like Richard says do you have any other pictures? Picasa has face recognition, if you can start with some photos already identified then it can be useful.

                                    Oddly I have never thought about using this on a couple of photo albums I have
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                                      Like Richard says do you have any other pictures? Picasa has face recognition, if you can start with some photos already identified then it can be useful.

                                      Oddly I have never thought about using this on a couple of photo albums I have
                                      cancel that picasa no longer available, maybe there are other products out there.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I assume from the following FreeBMD data that Jeanette & Florence were sisters? However, it seems that you have Donald's birth date wrong as his birth wasn't registered until 1923. Therefore, it's possible that the photo was taken before he was born, or maybe he is in the pram and it is the three girls in the photo (5th, 6th, & 7th from left)?

                                        Marriages Sep 1912
                                        GOODALL Jeannette L Johnston St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 1135
                                        Johnston James Goodall St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1135

                                        Births Jun 1915
                                        Johnston James Goodall Croydon 2a 571
                                        Births Mar 1917
                                        Johnston Alexander F Goodall Croydon 2a 526
                                        Births Dec 1918
                                        Johnston Albert H Goodall Croydon 2a 460
                                        Births Mar 1920
                                        Johnston Kathleen J Goodall Croydon 2a 734
                                        Births Sep 1922
                                        Johnston Lillie A G Goodall Croydon 2a 572

                                        Marriages Jun 1914
                                        Bridge Frederick G Goodall St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 985
                                        GOODALL Florence G Bridge St Geo.H.Sq 1a 985

                                        Births Dec 1914
                                        BRIDGE Frederick C Goodall St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 748
                                        Births Sep 1916
                                        Bridge George A Goodall Croydon 2a 608
                                        Births Mar 1921
                                        Bridge Lillie G Goodall Croydon 2a 618
                                        Births Jun 1923
                                        Bridge Donald A B Goodall Croydon 2a 598
                                        Last edited by Richard in Perth; 19-12-19, 16:25.

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