FHL lookup request

[TrevorFranklin]

My 2x Gt grandmother's giving me a little headache.
She married twice, the second being to James Merritt 1864 in Camberwell.
On the marriage cert, she has father as WILLIAM (A farmer)
The census' of 1871/81 and 91 all have her born c1837/38 in Bacton Suffolk, but the only birth/baptism I can find around that time has the parents as George and Elizabeth.

Is anyone able to access the following to see what father is listed?

FHL Film Number: 1658080
Marriage Place: Barham, Suffolk, England
Marriage Date: 1 Sep 1860
Name: Sarah Catchpole
Spouse: David Clark

Many thanks
Trev

[Katarzyna]

1861 census has her with parents George and Elizabeth so cannot be the same one as the marriage in 1860:
George Catchpole Head Married Male 56 1805 Higgler Bacton, Suffolk, England
Elizabeth Catchpole Wife Married Female 55 1806 Higgler Wife Cotton, Suffolk, England
Sarah Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 24 1837 Laundress Bacton, Suffolk, England
Thirza Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1845 Scholar Bacton, Suffolk, England
Eliza Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1850 Scholar Bacton, Suffolk, England
Peter Catchpole Grandson Unmarried Male 0 1861 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England

[Karamazov]

1861 census has her with parents George and Elizabeth so cannot be the same one as the marriage in 1860:
George Catchpole Head Married Male 56 1805 Higgler Bacton, Suffolk, England
Elizabeth Catchpole Wife Married Female 55 1806 Higgler Wife Cotton, Suffolk, England
Sarah Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 24 1837 Laundress Bacton, Suffolk, England
Thirza Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1845 Scholar Bacton, Suffolk, England
Eliza Catchpole Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1850 Scholar Bacton, Suffolk, England
Peter Catchpole Grandson Unmarried Male 0 1861 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England

Kat,
I thought that too initially - but then found a transcription on FMP which gives the same 1860 date of marriage as Trevor gives above (no father's name recorded) but then found the marriage was only registered in Hartismere in q3 of 1861 4a 699.
So - either year wrongly transcribed on the FHL transcription or it was a very late civil registration. It looks like the only way to resolve is to order the marriage cert...

Christine

[Katarzyna]

Marriages Mar 1860 (>99%)
Baker Charles Henry Romford 4a 85
Catchpole Sarah Plomesgate 4a 85 should be Bosmere if married in Barham.
Fuller Sarah Sophia Romford 4a 85
Skiggs George Romford 4a 85
Titmarsh Maria Romford 4a 85

Hartismere is reg district for Bacton.

[Katarzyna]

yes it's a bit weird
Marriages Sep 1861
Catchpole Sarah Hartismere 4a 699
Clark David Hartismere 4a 699

[PhotoFamily]

I don't suppose you live near a Family History Centre? The film is online, but only available at FHL or an FHC:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=7172&query=%2Bfilm_number%3A1658080

[cbcarolyn]

I note that there is a Sarah Catchpool here in 1851

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=6477399&tid=165406040&pid=282154034758&usePUB=true&_phsrc=SZd32782&_phstart=successSource

Name: Sarah Catchpool
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bacton, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Great Finborough
Registration district: Stow
Sub-registration district: Walsham
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 1794
Folio: 480
Page Number: 15

and your family has an Ann with that DoB, and later is Sarah (I think)

Name: Ann Catchpole
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Catchpole
Mother's name: Elizabeth Catchpole
Gender: Female
Where born: Bacton, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Bacton
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Hartismere
Sub-registration district: Mendlesham
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Household schedule number: 75
Piece: 1795
Folio: 195
Page Number: 17

[cbcarolyn]

I also see that in 1871 census she has a child of her own marked as stepson, not sure how this has fitted with the marriage - not fitting together at all
Name: Heber Leven Catchpole
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1861
Baptism Place: Bacton, Suffolk, England
Mother: Sarah Catchpole
FHL Film Number: 1658080
Reference ID: 83

and a nephew - was hoping that this would lead to another marriage, but looks as though it is a sisters child - have you traced the mother?
CATCHPOLE, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 155

I guess you have explored all these avenues already?

[Katarzyna]

I also see that in 1871 census she has a child of her own marked as stepson, not sure how this has fitted with the marriage - not fitting together at all
Name: Heber Leven Catchpole
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1861
Baptism Place: Bacton, Suffolk, England
Mother: Sarah Catchpole
FHL Film Number: 1658080
Reference ID: 83

Heber was mistranscribed as Peter on FMP from image on 1861 census see post#2 but Ancestry shows him as Heber
Peter Catchpole Grandson Unmarried Male 0 1861 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England.
I can't see a birth for him tho'.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=17024469

[Katarzyna]

His marriage is as Merritt:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_194578-00472?pid=1809313&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D1623%26h%3D1809313%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D8767&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.145007604.1900393978.1574374528-397189172.1574374528

[cbcarolyn]

Heber was mistranscribed as Peter on FMP from image on 1861 census see post#2 but Ancestry shows him as Heber
Peter Catchpole Grandson Unmarried Male 0 1861 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England.
I can't see a birth for him tho'.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...try&h=17024469

definitely the right family then hadn't spotted that one, weird then that she has William as father and that Heber has Catchpole as surname

I had seen the marriage too - I am most inquisitive what is the occupation of James Merritt.

[TrevorFranklin]

Just to let you all understand about Huber Catchpole/Merritt (baptised in Limehouse 1860):
Herber Leven Catchpole was the son of Sarah, with no father's name when he was baptised in Limehouse london.
Sarah married David Clark soon after Huber's birth (1860 Barham Suffolk), but then David died (I assume it was the 1861 death) and she married my Gt Gt grandfather MERRITT (under the surname of Clark, with Faher William Catchpole, a farmer).
On one census Huber used the surname of Catchpole, but then went onto keep using MERRIT as his surname. I have his marriage and his children, all using MERRITT.


My main challenge is seeing the actual FHL transcript of Susan's marriage to David Clarke, as I want to find out if it gives the father's name, but I do not have access to a centre to view it :(.

I know that in 1851 Sarah was in domestic service (Great Finborough, Suffolk, England) and assume that between then and 1860 she ended up in the Limehouse area of London (presumably in service down there).

The problem with the catchpoles and Bacton, is that there are a number in that area and a number of possible parents for Sarah, even if the George is correct and she has the mother Elizabeth.
I have seen many trees where they say her parents were George and Elizabeth, but have the wrong George (born Carlton-Colville 1808) and a different surname for her mother. With them then saying that her Grandparents were Daniel Catchpole and Jemima, but that is not correct.

George Catchpole (1806 Bacton Suffolk), married Elizabeth Lanham 17th Oct 1825 in Bacton, but the first children for a George and Elizabeth I can find in Bacton start at 1834, with a Richard Bartick Catchpole (were there children in the first 10 years and/or did Elizabeth die and Georg married another Elizabeth?).
George (1806 Bacton Suffolk), was baptised in Bacton, with the only person recorded is mother Susan Catchpole.
Who was susan? She would have been born c1790 (or less), was she single or a widow?
The quest goes on to get this line further back, but with the records for that area not being online yet, "I may be some time" and it could end up being one of my 'when I retire' lines of enquiry.

[Katarzyna]

I shall be visiting an LDS centre in January /February time as I need to order some Polish films - they always take 6-8 weeks to come from Utah. I'll see if I can find that marriage for you then if no-one else finds it meantime.

[TrevorFranklin]

And to confuse things a little more.
Sarah , when she is baptised is showing her mother as Elizabeth Moye Catchpole, and I think that is a transcription error, with Moye being Mary/Marie?

Or could I be right and this is a second wife of George, who happened to be called Elizabeth (remember George married Elizabeth Langham 1825, but I found no births between 1825 and 1834)?
1834 Richard Bartick Catchpole was born in Bacton and is on the 1851 census with George, Elizabeth and younger siblings I am aware of.
Could 'Bartick' be of relevance?


Name:
Sarah Catchpole
Gender:
Female
Baptism Date:
12 Mar 1837
Baptism Place:
Bacton, Suffolk, England
Father:
George Catchpole
Mother:
Elizabeth Moye Catchpole
FHL Film Number:
1658080
Reference ID:
39

[Elaine]

Just thought I would look at Bacton and found these on FMP

England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975

First name(s) Charles
Last name Catchpole
Baptism year 1826
Baptism date 10 Sep 1826
Residence England
Place Bacton
County Suffolk
Country England
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Catchpole
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name Moyse

First name(s) Susan
Last name Catchpole
Gender Female
Baptism year 1828
Baptism date 21 Sep 1828
Residence Bacton, Suffolk, England
Place Bacton
County Suffolk
Country England
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Catchpole
Mother's first name(s) Elizth.
Mother's last name Moye Catchpole

First name(s) Susanna
Last name Catchpole
Baptism year 1831
Baptism date 10 Apr 1831
Residence Bacton, Suffolk, England
Place Bacton
County Suffolk
Country England
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Catchpole
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name Moyse Catchpole

First name(s) Phillis
Last name Catchpole
Gender Female
Baptism year 1833
Baptism date 09 Jun 1833
Residence Bacton, Suffolk, England
Place Bacton
County Suffolk
Country England
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Catchpole
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name Moyse Catchpole

[Elaine]

Found this burial NBI

Susan Catchpole
Age 1
Birth year 1828
Death year 1829
Burial year 1829
Burial date 08 Dec 1829
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Place Bacton
County Suffolk

1841

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73Q-L43

As George and Elizabeth with Ann, Fred and Susan Bantick age 65

and marriage for Susan

Suffolk Marriage Index
First name(s) Richard
Last name Bantock
Marriage year 1817
Marriage date 22 Oct 1817
Marriage place Buxhall
Spouse's first name(s) Susan
Spouse's last name Catchpole
Groom's marital status Widower
County Suffolk
Country England

[cbcarolyn]

Found this burial NBI

Susan Catchpole
Age 1
Birth year 1828
Death year 1829
Burial year 1829
Burial date 08 Dec 1829
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Place Bacton
County Suffolk

1841

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73Q-L43

As George and Elizabeth with Ann, Fred and Susan Bantick age 65

and marriage for Susan

Suffolk Marriage Index
First name(s) Richard
Last name Bantock
Marriage year 1817
Marriage date 22 Oct 1817
Marriage place Buxhall
Spouse's first name(s) Susan
Spouse's last name Catchpole
Groom's marital status Widower
County Suffolk
Country England

so a different George and Elizabeth
as no Phillis, think this is her in 1861
Name: Phillis Catchpole
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Barton, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Wyverstone
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Hartismere
Sub-registration district: Mendlesham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10a
Household schedule number: 32
Piece: 1795
Folio: 205
Page Number: 8

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/SFKHO107_1795_1795-0395?pid=4812848

I see that there is also a baptism for a child for her Charles Pharoah

[Elaine]

Yes and marrying Joseph Ottley but can't see her 1841 either.

[cbcarolyn]

there is an Ann Marie baptism George and Elizabeth no mention of Moyse 1839

[Elaine]

Just found Charles Catchpole as grandson in the Moyes house

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGRG-6B9

Charles Moyes Head 68 Old Newton, Suffolk
Philes Moyes Wife 66 Cotton, Suffolk
Charles Catchpole Grand Son 24 Bacton, Suffolk
James Felowes Catchpole Lodger 44 High Holbourn, London