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  • #41
    1901
    Registration district: Edmonton
    Sub-registration district: Enfield
    ED, institution, or vessel: 01
    Neighbors: View others on page
    Piece: 1270
    Folio: 19
    Page Number: 30
    Household schedule number: 184
    Household Members:
    Name Age
    George Emery 37
    Charlotte Emery 35
    George Emery 7
    Sarah Emery 11
    Gertrude Emery 10
    Florence Emery 5

    1911
    County/Island: Middlesex
    Country: England
    Street address: 7 Laurel Cottages, Margaret Rd, New Barnet, Herts
    Marital status: Single
    Occupation: Railway Porter
    Registration district: Barnet
    Registration District Number: 131
    Sub-registration district: Barnet
    ED, institution, or vessel: 14
    Household schedule number: 25
    Piece: 7153
    Household Members:
    Name Age
    George Emery 47
    Charlotte Emery 45
    Annie Emery 21
    Gertrude Emery 20
    George Emery 17
    Florence Emery 15
    William Emery 6
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Caroline View Post
      Charles Mills Hart
      Worthing
      Q3
      Volume 7
      Page 552



      His mother's maiden name is Hart. Parents, paternal first cousins, were married in Aldershot in 1831. He is the youngest of 5 and the only one who appears to have a birth registration - 2 too early baptised in Upper Beeding, 2 not registered, born Arundel according to census returns and one of those appears not to have been baptised either. Charles was baptised in Littlehampton. They're distant twigs but I was wondering why no maiden name was showing so wanted to find out!!
      He's on the new index as HARL , but with a blank for the maiden name. Be interesting to hear what it reveals.

      It may be that the registrar didn't follow the convention and used a different wording instead of "formerly", and so the transcribers didn't record a maiden name. I have seen a district where for a period all the mothers are shown as "x late y" and so all have a blank as maiden name on the new index.
      Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
      Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
        He's on the new index as HARL , but with a blank for the maiden name. Be interesting to hear what it reveals.

        It may be that the registrar didn't follow the convention and used a different wording instead of "formerly", and so the transcribers didn't record a maiden name. I have seen a district where for a period all the mothers are shown as "x late y" and so all have a blank as maiden name on the new index.
        Thank you - I can see it there now but it is clearly a t on the page! I'll let you know what arrives.

        P.S. Sorry JLB, I highjacked your thread.
        Caroline
        Caroline's Family History Pages
        Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

        Comment


        • #44
          Thank you. you all have been busy!
          I didn't know any of the family but have done a lot of research on them and there is no sign of a Spooner there.His parents and siblings were all alive when he died so I can't imagine that anyone other than his wife and child would be dependent on him other than an illegitimate child providing that I'm reading the Pension Card correctly.George also appears under "Soldiers' Effects" on Ancestry and just his wife and child are mentioned.
          I wonder if my Nan knew.
          I think it was 1913-14 that George was working in Wood Green Station as a railway porter, and I worked out that he was probably called up at the end of 1915.He enlisted in Mansfield. He married my just turned 16 year old Nan soon after,but on the South Coast.
          Just to throw a spanner in the works --If Miss Spooner discovered that she was pregnant when they were still in London would she necessarily have gone home? It might have depended on her family.

          Jan

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
            Where did you find this DOB?
            I can see 2 possible candidates on the 1939 Register for March qtr 1915:
            Dorothy Spooner in Kent, single, Hospital Domestic duties 23 Jan 1915 later Hopson
            Dorothy May Spooner in Birmingham, single, Domestic Servant 9 Jan 1915 later Merchel

            She is married by the time of the 1939 register. Try Collins (assuming I have the right Dorothy M Spooner).
            Last edited by teasie; 02-10-19, 15:34.

            Comment


            • #46
              I suspect they are correct censuses Caroline as I said before Wood Green and New Barnet are only 4 miles away from each other.
              Where did you find Dorothy's DoB Teasie ....Post #32... you were most specific about it.... Her DoB seems to be 13 Feb 1915.

              Edit: Thanks Teasie missed that post.You maybe should have said where you found it???
              Last edited by Katarzyna; 02-10-19, 15:37.
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                I suspect they are correct censuses Caroline as I said before Wood Green and New Barnet are only 4 miles away from each other.
                Where did you find Dorothy's DoB ....Post #32... you were most specific about it.... Her DoB seems to be 13 Feb 1915.
                As above, try Collins.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Got the message first time!!!
                  As Teasie posted before- post#32 - I too suspect George probably chickened out of marriage as the banns were read in September 1914 and Dorothy was born 4 months later. Poor Mary Ann. Sad she never married after that.
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Sorry, but you asked twice so I answered twice!

                    Apologies too if you feel I should have been more specific about how/where I found her, but with a 1915 birth the first thing I looked for was a marriage pre-1939.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      the censuses are correct

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by JLB View Post
                        Thank you. you all have been busy!
                        I didn't know any of the family but have done a lot of research on them and there is no sign of a Spooner there.His parents and siblings were all alive when he died so I can't imagine that anyone other than his wife and child would be dependent on him other than an illegitimate child providing that I'm reading the Pension Card correctly.George also appears under "Soldiers' Effects" on Ancestry and just his wife and child are mentioned.
                        I wonder if my Nan knew.
                        I think it was 1913-14 that George was working in Wood Green Station as a railway porter, and I worked out that he was probably called up at the end of 1915.He enlisted in Mansfield. He married my just turned 16 year old Nan soon after,but on the South Coast.
                        Just to throw a spanner in the works --If Miss Spooner discovered that she was pregnant when they were still in London would she necessarily have gone home? It might have depended on her family.

                        Jan
                        It all makes sense, not sure how you can actually prove it.

                        Not sure if the birth certificate will tell you more, probably worth ordering it?
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Very small point. Call up didn't start till 1916, it was voluntary before that, so if he went before 1916 it was because he wanted to. Not sure if he would get leave to marry so soon after joining up but anything is possible.

                          Not many households would allow a pregnant servant to stay, so it would either be go home or go into a refuge of some sort.

                          OC

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                          • #53
                            In the Rank or Profession box on his marriage cert the box is split and at the top it says Signaller R F A and at the bottom Railway Signalman.

                            Jan

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Are there any wills about, am thinking the family may have known if it had gone as far as banns? And maybe a mention on one might be there.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Miss Spooner obviously took him to court for maintenance. Local papers always printed maintenance orders, might be worth a look in the papers.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I've just realized that on the back of the card it says 16th May 1925Fold3_Page_2.jpgSo frustrating that there is no more information as to whether she actually got a pension.
                                  I've been trying to follow up on all the leads that you all so kindly helped with and discovered that Samuel Spooner the brother that she was living with in 1939 left a will in 1955 in which the probate went to Mary Ann, so I've ordered it but who knows when that might arrive!
                                  I'm still debating whether to order any birth certs.

                                  Jan

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    JLB

                                    Wait till you've seen the will, it will surely name her child. We hope!

                                    ETA - a friend was in a similar position and we know that the legal widow got the pension, the dependent got maintenance until the age of 14.

                                    OC
                                    Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 03-10-19, 18:46.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by JLB View Post
                                      I've just realized that on the back of the card it says 16th May 1925[ATTACH=CONFIG]20267[/ATTACH]So frustrating that there is no more information as to whether she actually got a pension.
                                      I've been trying to follow up on all the leads that you all so kindly helped with and discovered that Samuel Spooner the brother that she was living with in 1939 left a will in 1955 in which the probate went to Mary Ann, so I've ordered it but who knows when that might arrive!
                                      I'm still debating whether to order any birth certs.

                                      Jan
                                      That is good news, it might tell you something. Should tell you who her child is for definite, and then maybe worth getting the certificate?
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Oh duhr! Samuel's will won't necessarily name his niece! Fingers crossed though.

                                        OC

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Well I thought it was worth a try. Just dont' know how many months I'll have to wait for it

                                          Jan

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