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Thread: Looking for Simmons in 1861

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
    I have a theory but it's only that - Simmons' father, John Butler, had a successful carpentry firm, first in London and by 1861 back in Berkshire, at Hurst which is only about 20 miles from Hedgerley I think. On the 1861 census Thomas and Charlotte are at Hedgerley with a couple of carpenters, who I think would have been doing work to the house before it sold. I've always wondered if Simmons also worked on the house at some point, since he was a carpenter by trade too. Another reason I would really love to locate him on the 1861 census.
    It has to be something like that. Maybe travelling around a bit for jobs meant a miss from the census, be nice to find him. I assume his father is John Simmons Butler that is listed in directories?
    Carolyn

    Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
    Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Plant, Skinner - Lincs ....all moved to London
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vera2013 View Post
    I think the 1861 is a good possible for Sarah Palmer. In the household is a Margaret Hutchinson aged 70 a Widow b Chatteris (as was father Joseph Palmer). Ancestry is cross referencing Margaret with a Margaret Palmer who married a Robert Hutchinson. So possible Aunt

    Vera
    Looks like an intriguing one then. They do appear to be 'together' in the household. good detective work.
    Carolyn

    Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
    Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Plant, Skinner - Lincs ....all moved to London
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by vera2013 View Post
    I think the 1861 is a good possible for Sarah Palmer. In the household is a Margaret Hutchinson aged 70 a Widow b Chatteris (as was father Joseph Palmer). Ancestry is cross referencing Margaret with a Margaret Palmer who married a Robert Hutchinson. So possible Aunt



    Vera
    That is terrific detective work Vera

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cbcarolyn View Post
    It has to be something like that. Maybe travelling around a bit for jobs meant a miss from the census, be nice to find him. I assume his father is John Simmons Butler that is listed in directories?
    Yes, that's his father. When he died in 1874, Charlotte had "son of John" inscribed on his gravestone. He was an only son with several sisters.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by cbcarolyn View Post
    Looks like an intriguing one then. They do appear to be 'together' in the household. good detective work.
    You are all terrific detectives Carolyn

  6. #26
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    There is a Margaret Palmer marriage:

    Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1814
    Marriage Place: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England
    Spouse: Robert Hutchin

    looks like she could be father Jospehs sister from baptism records, well done Vera

    Not me - it was Vera
    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 12-09-19 at 23:58.
    Carolyn

    Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
    Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Plant, Skinner - Lincs ....all moved to London
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by cbcarolyn View Post
    There is a Margaret Palmer marriage:

    Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1814
    Marriage Place: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England
    Spouse: Robert Hutchin

    looks like she could be father Jospehs sister from baptism records, well done Vera

    Not me - it was Vera
    Thanks Carolyn, a great help.

    So Sarah Palmer was still alive in 1861 - she's listed as married on the census so I presume she and Simmons were still together and he was away working.

    Will check out the death that Vera found.

    Thanks again all

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
    Thanks Carolyn, a great help.

    So Sarah Palmer was still alive in 1861 - she's listed as married on the census so I presume she and Simmons were still together and he was away working.

    Will check out the death that Vera found.

    Thanks again all
    This is getting more intriguing. The death Vera found would fit - and make Simmons a bigamist who absconded to Australia, so very interesting.

    Then found this woman on the 1871 census: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...&rhSource=8767. She could have gone back to using her maiden name Palmer or could be a completely different woman. Will have to do a bit more searching.

    I think this could be Margaret Hutchinson's death in 1867: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...=successSource

  9. #29
    Ancestry not letting me sign in to UK to see your links

    I'm now wondering about that 1864 death for Sarah. Looking to see if Sarah Palmer Butler re-married.

    Can see on FMP a possible marriage
    Parish of St Anne, Westminster 1866
    Samuel Vary 32 Bachelor Gas Fitter residing Church St f William ?Cutler/Cutter
    Sarah Butler 32 Widow S/A f Joseph Palmer, Builder
    Witnesses John Cramer, Louisa Vary

    1871 Sarah visiting Dunn family in Lambeth. Married, Dressmaker b City of London

    Death for a Sarah Vary 1874 Pancras reg. Burial 1/9/1874 Pancras cemetery

    Vera

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by vera2013 View Post
    Ancestry not letting me sign in to UK to see your links

    I'm now wondering about that 1864 death for Sarah. Looking to see if Sarah Palmer Butler re-married.

    Can see on FMP a possible marriage
    Parish of St Anne, Westminster 1866
    Samuel Vary 32 Bachelor Gas Fitter residing Church St f William ?Cutler/Cutter
    Sarah Butler 32 Widow S/A f Joseph Palmer, Builder
    Witnesses John Cramer, Louisa Vary

    1871 Sarah visiting Dunn family in Lambeth. Married, Dressmaker b City of London

    Death for a Sarah Vary 1874 Pancras reg. Burial 1/9/1874 Pancras cemetery

    Vera
    This looks really intriguing - thank you so much!

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