Help with an (probable) illegitimate birth

[Katarzyna]

Have enlarged the abode and occupation:

smith.JPG

[cbcarolyn]

Linda,

Thanks - good spot! I hadn't even realised that the GRO index on FMP show the maiden name - they don't on Ancestry!

James

you can use FMP to search even if you don't have a sub, and it will give you the years, learnt that recently

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, I agree Fireman looking at the enlarged image.

It is looking unlikely that John and Mary are the parents of your Frederick George. In my experience, single mothers were much more inclined to lie to a registrar than to a vicar and most vicars didn't pass up an opportunity to write the word illegitimate!

If you are certain you have the correct birth certificate, then I would think Frederick is hiding somewhere under another name, i.e. his mother has married and he appears under his stepfather's surname, or he is in an institution of some sort.

OC

[ozgirl]

I think there are two families here of the Smith / Gregory.
For example these two:

SMITH, GEORGE HENRY	GREGORY
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 351

SMITH, JOHN GEORGE	GREGORY
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 377

George Henry is the son of John Smith and Elizabeth Gregory who married in 1849 in Portsea. Interestingly another Mary Ann Gregory is a witness. Elizabeth's father is John Gregory, a Seaman.

[ozgirl]

Have enlarged the abode and occupation:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20212[/ATTACH]

I think it is Seaman - The "S" matches with the "S" of Smith. His Capital "F"s for other words on the page are completely different.

[JWS]

Thanks all - I'm amazed by the support you lot are offering! This forum is fantastic!

It is looking unlikely that John and Mary are the parents of your Frederick George. In my experience, single mothers were much more inclined to lie to a registrar than to a vicar and most vicars didn't pass up an opportunity to write the word illegitimate!

I feel like I'm at the point of determining that this John and Mary Ann are not likely the parents but that they are also not the same John and Mary Ann SMITH listed on the Frederick George SMITH baptism record for 1856.

If you are certain you have the correct birth certificate, then I would think Frederick is hiding somewhere under another name, i.e. his mother has married and he appears under his stepfather's surname, or he is in an institution of some sort.

OC

I'm pretty sure it's the correct birth certificate. The 1881, 1891, 1901, and 1911 census, his marriage cert, the newspaper article on his golden wedding anniversary, and his death notice all tie in to 1853. Searching FMP and Ancestry turns up only three Frederick George SMITH born in Portsea in the period 1843 to 1863. One is born 1862 so unlikely unless the date is significantly wrong and the other 1858 but I have traced his family through to confirm it's not him.

That said, I'm now wondering:
- if Frederick George wasn't brought up as SMITH and only changed (to his birth name?) before he married in 1879. Is this at all likely given the likely birth certificate and all documents from 1879 list him as SMITH?
- if Frederick George might have been given away to a workhouse or union of some sort after he was born?

It's so frustrating but I keep reminding myself a negative result is still another pathway explored.

Thanks for all your help with this!

James

[Anne in Carlisle]

Just to say I think it says Seaman as well. Several others on the same page say the same.
Anne

[JWS]

Just to say I think it says Seaman as well. Several others on the same page say the same.
Anne

Thanks Anne!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Well, he would only appear on the census under another name, that doesn't necessarily mean he changed his name for everyday life. Census enumerators often assumed things. And of course, people giving details often thought it ws no one elses business what had gone on in the family.

If he was in an institution, he might appear only with initials although I don't think they bothered concealing the identities of children in the workhouse etc.

OC

[ozgirl]

I have a similar case in my family - my GGM had an illegitimate son who was registered under her maiden name of Johnson. When she married my GGF the following year he took her married name (Brown) which was how he appeared in censuses. However he was baptised when he was 8, and a fictitious father was made up for him on the baptism record. Once he left home he reverted to his original name of Johnson, and used that from then on. This also took a lot of working out and going through lots of different births to rule out the false ones. So it is quite likely that Frederick could have been known by a different name all through childhood.

[kylejustin]

He may be registered as plain frederick smith, no middle name. Or as an unnamed smith.

It's also possible frederick smith was his step father, so he may have been born under another name.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I know this sounds silly when you study it closely, but the place name from a distance and at first glance I keep reading as Gosport.

[ozgirl]

Are there any more details on the birth certificate - who registered him, or was it mum?

[JWS]

I have a similar case in my family - my GGM had an illegitimate son who was registered under her maiden name of Johnson. When she married my GGF the following year he took her married name (Brown) which was how he appeared in censuses. However he was baptised when he was 8, and a fictitious father was made up for him on the baptism record. Once he left home he reverted to his original name of Johnson, and used that from then on. This also took a lot of working out and going through lots of different births to rule out the false ones. So it is quite likely that Frederick could have been known by a different name all through childhood.

Thanks - that is very interesting. One wonders how on earth you managed to get to the bottom of it.

I’m still reasonably convinced by his birth certificate so I think I feel I should be working to the assumption he was either in an institution or living under an assumed name with his mother.

Unfortunately it was his mother who is listed as the informant on the birth certificate. I’m still trawling through the address listed for clues and I’ll have a look at Portsmouth institutions for clues too.

Thanks all,

James