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Service Record for The Royal Engineers 1891? finding Richard Kean b Manchester 1860

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  • There was Richard Kean, born Hulme 1860, who I thought might have been my Grandfather.His Father was also Richard Kean, Born 1832.
    As Richard Kean, born1860 seems to die in Withington Workhouse in 1893,he can’t have been the same person as my Grandfather William James Wilson, who married my grandmother Margaret Rees in Swansea in June 1893.
    The reason for my search is because I can’t find William James Wilson anywhere before he married my grandmother.
    When I put Richard Kean on myFamily Tree on Ancestry, Thrulines adds about 7 of my paternal DNA matches, and so I know that I somehow match to that family... I just don’t know how???

    Comment


    • What are you matches like Holly? ie their cM values.
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 02-09-20, 19:39.
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Holly View Post
        When I put Richard Kean on myFamily Tree on Ancestry, Thrulines adds about 7 of my paternal DNA matches, and so I know that I somehow match to that family... I just don’t know how???
        I know nothing about DNA - do you think it is possible, but you just don't know how, or you know it isn't possible? Are they public trees? I think I have asked before sorry.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


        • Unlike people, - DNA doesn’t lie!

          I obviously have a DNA link to some of the Kean and Butler families, it’s just that it’s not via the man who seemed the most likely candidate to me...

          My Tree on Ancestry is Private, purely because I’m stuck.

          Most of my Kean and Butler DNA matches have Public Trees on Ancestry;which anyone can view.

          Holly.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
            What are you matches like Holly? ie their cM values.
            My Match to Verne Kean is 133cMs across 5 Segments. My sister and 2 Paternal 1st Cousins all match to him too. We all match to his nephew and grandson too. He is a descendant of Thomas Kean, brother to the Richard Kean that I have been researching.

            We all match to the descendants of John Kean, - another Kean brother.

            We all also matchto many of the descendants of Patrick Butler and Mary Howard. Their daughter Frances Butler was the mother of Thomas and Richard Kean.

            I hope that makes sense? I have all of the cMs figures if required.

            Holly.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Holly View Post
              Just reviewing everything that I have on this family...

              A kind person on the Manchester Forum found the Baptisms at St Wilfreds RC Church, Hulme, (now held at The Lancashire Archives) for Mary Agnes, Joseph, and Catherine Kean, between 1882 and 1885.

              I’ve now found 3 Admissions for Richard Kean to The Manchester Workhouse (Withington) between 1891 and 1893. If I’m reading it correctly, it looks like he Died in The Workhouse in January 1893:-(

              And so Richard Kean, born Manchester 1860, wasn’t my Grandfather...!

              Holly.
              I think this is a different Richard I think Richard senior?

              ​​​​​​First name(s) RD
              Last name KEAN
              Age 62
              Birth year 1832
              Death year 1894
              Death month Jan
              Death day 08
              Burial year -
              Burial place Salford
              Parish Hulme
              Place SALFORD
              County Lancashire
              Country England
              Union Chorlton
              Workhouse Withington
              Locality of record Manchester Withington Workhouse

              the register image is on FMP
              Last edited by cbcarolyn; 02-09-20, 22:36.
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • Oh! But the children who are admitted to the Workhouse are the children of Richard Kean born 1860, and the Informant is their Grandfather, Richard Anthony Kean?

                Presumably they were admitted after the death of their Mother, Mary Ann Kean, nee Young, who died age 29yrs?

                Does it give ages for the Richard Kean who was admitted to the Workhouse?

                Holly.

                Comment


                • age 61

                  Admission year 1892
                  Admission day 19
                  Admission month Aug

                  self admitted discharged in December

                  then 2 more:

                  Jan 1893 age 61
                  Mar 1893 age 61
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                  • mary Ann (not Agnes) 9 and Catherine 5 admitted in 1891 by Grandfather
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                    • Thanks Carolyn, - Yes, it’s Richard Kean (Senior) who dies in 1894.

                      I can just see ‘Mary A’ for the elder girl, but she was Mary Agnes on her Baptism. (Her Godmother was an Agnes).

                      And so that leaves their Father, - the Richard Kean born Hulme 1860, still unaccounted for.

                      Perhaps he was abroad with the Manchester Regiment?

                      Holly.


                      Comment


                      • do you have any of his military records? No idea what is out there.

                        Or it could be as you suspect he morphed into your man. Have you followed up the children? I did have a wander around last night Catherine looks as though she is in USA and says her father is Richard. Didn't get far with Mary...went to bed.
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • Thanks for looking carolyn, -snap, I spent too long looking, and gave up last night.

                          Richard Kean, born 1860, signed up to The Manchester Regiment in 1886. Service No: 2014.
                          3rd Battalion, Militia.

                          There doesn’t seem to be anything on The National Archives Site, searchable online, for this period. Tameside Council have a search facility, but I couldn’t find anything on there...

                          I’m a novice at Army Records, - Find my Past only seem to have his Attestation info...

                          Holly.

                          Comment


                          • yes me too on military, although have been learning with Julies's 'age problem' thread. NA is free atm and there are a few unindexed books on there that can be downloaded. The site is not easy for these records - you can't just stick in the regiment and hope for the best.

                            Might be worth a wander around while it is free, guess it won't be for much longer

                            there is this:
                            https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...tal-microfilm/

                            and this guidance which took me ages to find!
                            https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...viving-records

                            more guides with links
                            https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...uides/militia/
                            https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...rs-up-to-1913/

                            I can't find the list I was in the other day....will come back to you

                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                            • Our own FTF Reference Library: Military Research written by annswabey gives a lot of help in this area. She pulls together many of the NA record sets although it may be a little out 0f date and there will be far more now.

                              We also have other Military and Maritime History pages which can help too.
                              Caroline
                              Caroline's Family History Pages
                              Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

                              Comment


                              • Many thanks both, - for the pointers.

                                It’s a grey, wet day here, - and so I will have a wade through...?

                                Holly.

                                Comment


                                • I think I've found them but not very informative. Had to go round the houses as per on NA. Got them via the previous rgt 63RD ft. Directed to FMP.

                                  Will link

                                  Vera

                                  Comment


                                  • I think I’ve found Catherine Kean on the 1901 Census for Bury, as a Servant:

                                    Source Citation
                                    Class: RG13; Piece: 3637; Folio: 53; Page: 43

                                    Holly.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                      I think I've found them but not very informative. Had to go round the houses as per on NA. Got them via the previous rgt 63RD ft.

                                      Will link

                                      Vera
                                      Gosh, - thanks Vera!

                                      Comment


                                      • https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...1012%2F1514869

                                        Now not sure. Think you may already have these, having re-read thread

                                        Vera

                                        Comment


                                        • Is it the RE records you are looking for?

                                          Vera

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