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1939 census - woldhams family

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  • 1939 census - woldhams family

    Please help.

    Have been able to find in 1939 census
    Horace Edward Woldhams born 1908 Hackney
    with his mother (and NOT his wife as incorrectly quoted)
    Frances Eva Woldhams (maiden name Hobney) born 1883 Bethnal Green

    Horace married Lily Scott in 1932 West Ham
    They had their only child X in 1936 Essex

    Have been unable to find in 1939 census
    Lily and X, who are presumably together, mother and son

    Lily dies in 1987 Norwich
    Horace dies in 1989 Norwich
    So they are still together as husband and wife

    X marries in 1959 in Southend

    Thank you for your help.
    Last edited by Jill on the A272; 23-06-19, 17:37. Reason: potentially living person's name removed

  • #2
    SO SORRY
    SHOULD READ WODHAMS


    Please help.


    Have been able to find in 1939 census
    Horace Edward Wodhams born 1908 Hackney
    with his mother (and NOT his wife as incorrectly quoted)
    Frances Eva Wodhams (maiden name Hobney) born 1883 Bethnal Green

    Horace married Lily Scott in 1932 West Ham
    They had their only child XWodhams in 1936 Essex

    Have been unable to find in 1939 census
    Lily and X, who are presumably together, mother and son

    Lily dies in 1987 Norwich
    Horace dies in 1989 Norwich
    So they are still together as husband and wife

    X marries in 1959 in Southend

    Thank you for your help.
    Last edited by Jill on the A272; 23-06-19, 17:38. Reason: potentially living person named

    Comment


    • #3
      I have removed the name of the son in line with this forum's policy of not naming living people. If you can confirm he has died it can be re-instated.

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe he is still alive, thank you

        Comment


        • #5
          If he is still alive then he will not show up on the 1939 Register. He will be included but his details will have been redacted by a thick black line. You will need to look for his mother only and check to see if there is a redacted person in the household that might be him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you, there are records removed above and below his father and grandmother, so presumably one of those records is the person still living

            No sign of his mother still

            If the grandmother is at home looking after her grandson could Lily be away working for the war effort?

            Comment


            • #7
              Are you sure she isn't one of the redacted records? Even though she has died, some deaths are not picked up.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                Are you sure she isn't one of the redacted records? Even though she has died, some deaths are not picked up.

                OC
                Lily has a few more years to go yet, she dies in the 1980's!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wonder if Lily is in hospital or something and mum Frances has come to look after the little one. There is only one redacted at that address, so probably the son. It doesn't say that Frances is married to Horace E, only that she is married. Which is true as I believe this is her husband at home with the other children and he didn't die until 1948? -
                  Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 23-06-19, 20:43.
                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lorraine

                    I meant that even though she died in the 1980s, her death may not have been picked up yet, so her record on the 1939 register remains redacted.I

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My mother is in Cornwall with her Father's cousin in the 1939 register with her 2 younger sisters, leaving her mother, father and her elder sister in London, many were already evacuated. So this maybe the case for you. The redacted line could be the mother (incorrectly redacted) and the son living in the country with relatives, or with strangers.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I assume you have seen them on the electoral reg before and after 1939 at that address 32 Adderley Road? a quick glance I can see them in 1934, 1938, 1939, 1947 and 1949
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                          I wonder if Lily is in hospital or something and mum Frances has come to look after the little one. There is only one redacted at that address, so probably the son. It doesn't say that Frances is married to Horace E, only that she is married. Which is true as I believe this is her husband at home with the other children and he didn't die until 1948? -
                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true
                          Thanks, yes that is correct, just Lily then but wouldn't the authorities collate people's information from hospitals just as in the other censuses?

                          It does seem that Frances is there for childcare, maybe Lily is away just visiting friends or family - but still can't find her!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            I assume you have seen them on the electoral reg before and after 1939 at that address 32 Adderley Road? a quick glance I can see them in 1934, 1938, 1939, 1947 and 1949
                            Yes thank you, like you say, could be an administrative error removing Lily from home address and grandson Wodhams has been evacuated - but makes sense other way round that Frances the grandmother is looking after her grandchild while Lily is away.

                            Those in institutions would be included.

                            Evacuation took place in several waves. The first came on 1 September 1939 - the day Germany invaded Poland and two days before the British declaration of war. Over the course of three days 1.5 million evacuees were sent to rural locations considered to be safe.


                            1. What are these records? The 1939 Register provides a snapshot of the civilian population of England and Wales just after the outbreak of the Second World War. As the 1931 census for England and Wales was destroyed by fire during the Second World War and no census was taken in 1941, the Register provides […]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Lorraine

                              I meant that even though she died in the 1980s, her death may not have been picked up yet, so her record on the 1939 register remains redacted.I

                              OC
                              OC

                              That makes sense with clearer explanation of how 1939 census works

                              Lorraine

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                redacting is very hit and miss, I had 2 living relatives that are not redacted.

                                Looking around it maybe Harrow was not 'evacuated'.

                                someones memory of the war in Harrow:
                                While on his rescue duties, he would sometimes find an unexploded shell, or incendiary bomb, which had to ...


                                the electoral reg proves that the move was only temporary, whatever the outcome of the 1939 register
                                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 24-06-19, 09:17.
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                  redacting is very hit and miss, I had 2 living relatives that are not redacted.

                                  Looking around it maybe Harrow was not 'evacuated'.

                                  someones memory of the war in Harrow:
                                  While on his rescue duties, he would sometimes find an unexploded shell, or incendiary bomb, which had to ...


                                  the electoral reg proves that the move was only temporary, whatever the outcome of the 1939 register

                                  Thank you, that's really interesting.


                                  There is a Lily Wodhams with wrong birthday of 28 February 1905, should be 1 February 1906 who is a parlour maid in Hambledon, Surrey - but would a parlour maid stay away from their family in 1939 as our Lily lives in Hendon, far too far away to travel every day for morning duties, thought servants jobs were dying out after First World War with better job prospects and conditions.


                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I saw that one, and thought was unlikely, especially as husband was a railway clerk, I maybe wrong, but felt that the job was probably OK pay that would mean she would be doing something closer to home, and maybe even interesting/important eg a Nurse or something to do with war effort straightaway

                                    do you know any occupation she may have had?
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Unfortunately, the family didn't pass much knowledge down, so don't know I'm afraid

                                      Lily is an enigma, can't find Lily's birth, baptism or 1911 census

                                      On the 1932 marriage image for Lily Scott and Horace Wodhams:
                                      Father John Scott is RETIRED! Doesn't even say from what occupation so could cross-reference the 1911 censuses!
                                      Lily and Horace are both living at 4 Wigram Square, Walthamstow
                                      Wedding witnesses are: Walter Moss and Horace Wodhams, so no other Scott relative to try and trace with father John and daughter Lily in the 1911 census
                                      Frances E Wodhams is living at 4 Wigram Square in 1965

                                      Have found several Lily Scotts living with a father John in the 1911 census - the only sensible one living in London is still single at home with her father John and mother Catherine in 1939, so the only Lilys with father John left are found around the country, also tried Lilian.

                                      The Wodhams family lived in London, moved from Norfolk to London but had moved from Scotland to Norfolk - the father was a Scottish drover and the drovers would bring their prized cattle to Norfolk and settle there, the Norfolk cattle breeds not of such good quality in 1841/1851

                                      Amazing what you can find out!

                                      But then there are some ancestors that are completely elusive!

                                      Maybe Lily is not her first name, maybe John is not her father's name, giving out false information, orphan, came from workhouse, abandoned, don't know?

                                      Do know that Horace and Lily were completely devoted to one another, Horace a great cook kept Lily at home until her death.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        In an effort to find your Lily in 1939, I took a look at who she may be. Doesnt help so far with the 1939 but there is a Lily b March quarter 1906 Runcorn, Cheshire. Mmn Dutton. She can be seen in the 1911 census with father John, mother Selina at Gt Budworth. A baptism record gives dob 01/02/1906 Gt Budworth. Mother Selina dies 1914. Couple had 12 children by 1911.

                                        Vera
                                        Last edited by vera2013; 24-06-19, 15:52.

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