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  • #21
    I must be going mad I can't find them on GRO....

    I never knew that 'Nailer' was so prolific in Birmingham, someone else who was asking for look ups had many of them, fascinating.

    Looks like you are getting somewhere, had at first thought Bordersley and Broseley were maybe misheard, but think that is a real long shot.

    I had seen 1871 census but wasn't sure either, and couldn't find any others. so is 1851 just badly written and her age wrong?
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


    • #22
      Just had a look at the first baptism I can see and they are at Park Street Vera!

      Son Francis

      Elaine

      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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      • #23
        I wonder if there should be another sibling - John, they seemed to be using their names for first born
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


        • #25
          This is who I thought the 1871 children were on GRO

          Lee, Francis 1851 SQ Birmingham mmn Simpson
          Lee, Emily 1854 MQ Birmingham " "
          Lee, Eliza 1857 JQ Dudley " "
          Lee, Sophia 1861 MQ Dudley " "

          Seems a bit odd no children recorded before 1851.

          This is posing more questions than answers. Who is Sophia Rogers? Were Edward and Francis even brothers

          Vera
          Last edited by vera2013; 27-05-19, 21:55.

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          • #26
            Sophia isn't there 1841 Park Street

            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


            • #27
              Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
              This is who I thought the 1871 children were on GRO

              Lee, Francis 1851 SQ Birmingham mmn Simpson
              Lee, Emily 1854 MQ Birmingham " "
              Lee, Eliza 1857 JQ Dudley " "
              Lee, Sophia 1861 MQ Dudley " "

              Seems a bit odd no children recorded before 1851.

              This is posing more questions than answers. Who is Sophia Rogers? Were Edward and Francis even brothers

              Vera
              Thank you - no idea what I was doing! Like you say very odd no children following marriage, so maybe wrong people

              Not found any records to tie them together.
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • #28
                Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                Trying to track down Francis for pob. Have found a Francis Lea with Sophia in Birmingham in 1871. He is born in Worcester which is a different area from that of ? brother Edward recorded on 1871 as born in Shropshire.

                Another problem on this 1871 census raises a query on Sophia Rogers. The mmn for the children on the 1871 is Simpson.

                1871
                Francis Lea b 1824 Worcester a Smith
                Sophie Lea b 1823 Kidderminster
                Emma b 1852 Kidderminster
                Eliza b 1857 b Gournal (Dudley Reg)
                Sophia b 1861 Gournal
                living Brewery Street Court, Aston, Birmingham

                there is also a Francis b 1851 Birmingham reg

                I can see a Sophia and Francis with Sophia's parents in the 1851. This too is a bit odd

                James 76 Nail Maker b Oldbury, Staffs
                Martha 70 Birmingham
                James, Son 41 Married Nail Maker Burton on Trent
                Sophie daughter Married 48 ?? Thimble Maker Kidderminster
                Francis Son Married 28 Nail maker Worcester
                Living 3, Park Street, Birmingham

                The Witnesses to Francis Lea and Sophie Rogers wedding in 1844 were
                William Simpson and Elizabeth Butler who marry in 1837 St Martin, Birmingham
                William full age bachelor Nailer living Park Street father James, Nailer
                Elizabeth Butler Full Age Park Street father George Nailer
                Witnesses Hannah Butler and Ann Jacobs

                Subsequent census for William Simpson have him recorded as b Kidderminster

                So was Sophie perhaps married previously or is this a different Sophie altogether I wonder

                Vera
                I think these are the right people - the enumerator has made an error (or their form was filled in wrong), the age 48 follows age 41 - and they are normally in order aren't they so 28 works. and then clearly Francis would be son in law...and wrong name! Rogers makes no sense though
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                • #29
                  thank you every one i have beung trying to work it out for years now i just keep going in circles.i think the family were more likely to be from the birmingham area as they didnt seem to move out of birmingham.

                  Comment


                  • #30
                    have this which I don't know is any help at all or just adding to the confusion. 1841 census has a john lea aged 28 and a Margaret lea age 25 living with family of William and Elizabeth Rodgers [ rogers ]in Dartmouth stree aston both born in county the trouble is my grandfather George Frederick lee [Edward lees son] died before I was born and his wife my grandmother Elizabeth died when I was ten. and I have no family I can ask for help. over the different census returns they have had name spelt as lee and also lea.

                    Comment


                    • #31
                      It might be best to work backwards from George Frederick and Elizabeth. Do you have their Birth and Marriage details? What censuses do you have for them?
                      Kat

                      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                      Comment


                      • #32
                        Originally posted by gracemegan View Post
                        have this which I don't know is any help at all or just adding to the confusion. 1841 census has a john lea aged 28 and a Margaret lea age 25 living with family of William and Elizabeth Rodgers [ rogers ]in Dartmouth stree aston both born in county the trouble is my grandfather George Frederick lee [Edward lees son] died before I was born and his wife my grandmother Elizabeth died when I was ten. and I have no family I can ask for help. over the different census returns they have had name spelt as lee and also lea.
                        I do feel that there should have been a John Lee as well, although he is a much older than the other brothers, and not old enough to be the father - how do you know that Francis is a brother?

                        Here is their marriage


                        In Dartmouth Street same as census
                        John - father John both Blacksmiths spelt Lee
                        Margaret Rogers father William
                        Last edited by cbcarolyn; 28-05-19, 13:28.
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #33
                          Are you sure your grandfather wasn't born Frederick George Lee in March 1868. This looks very much like the family to me

                          1851 - https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...&rhSource=7572

                          1871 - https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...&rhSource=8860

                          1881 - https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...&rhSource=7619

                          and Frederick George marriage - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...159.1554137090
                          Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 29-05-19, 09:43.
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                          Comment


                          • #34
                            Yes that was what was confusing me too.
                            LEE, FREDERICK GEORGE mmn PUGH
                            GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 28

                            What I don't understand is why he would have given Broseley as POB on 1871 census. It seems an obscure place to give if he didn't have any association with it.
                            Can I ask how it was established that Edward had a brother called Francis. I don't see a connection.
                            Kat

                            My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                            Comment


                            • #35
                              Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                              Yes that was what was confusing me too.
                              LEE, FREDERICK GEORGE mmn PUGH
                              GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 28

                              What I don't understand is why he would have given Broseley as POB on 1871 census. It seems an obscure place to give if he didn't have any association with it.
                              Can I ask how it was established that Edward had a brother called Francis. I don't see a connection.
                              Yes that has Vera and I stumped. I did wonder if they moved as small children, so feel like Birmingham is their birthplace. but Francis has put other counties as his birth, so even odder.

                              see post 14
                              Last edited by cbcarolyn; 28-05-19, 16:56.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                              • #36
                                including the latest John Lee with his parent as John Lee, all 3 marriages are after 1841, yet can't find an obvious John Lee in 1841 census. None state that he is deceased, which I assume they would?
                                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 29-05-19, 09:36.
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                • #37
                                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                  including the latest John Lee with his parent as John Lee, all 3 marriages are after 1841, yet can't find an obvious John Lee in 1841 census. None state that he is deceased, which I assume they would?
                                  Should, rather than would, I think! Information given often depends upon the wording of the questioner - "and the name of your father? And his occupation?" could truthfully be responded to as "John Smith; farm labourer." If the second question was "What is his occupation/ what does he do for a living?" then the appropriate answer would be that the father was deceased but had formerly been a farm labourer.

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                                  • #38
                                    their marriage in 1846, and every census after, its his birth I am trying to find. need his parents

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                                    • #39
                                      sorry for confusion. hope this may help. 1901 census has following reservoir terrace Ladywood
                                      George lee head 32
                                      Elizabeth lee nee evans [my grandparents] age 28
                                      Frederick son age 5
                                      percy age 3
                                      then maud may was born 1901 followed by dorris Dorothy and daisy Winifred.

                                      Comment


                                      • #40
                                        Hello Gracemegan

                                        I note that Frederick George born to Edward and Ann Maria (Maria) Lee was in later census known as just George Lee, your grandfather.

                                        To help track the name of the parents of your Great grandfather, Edward Lee, please let us have any information you have on Francis Lee to support him being the brother of Edward. I note that on their marriage records the father of Edward and Francis is given as John Lee, Blacksmith and that Francis and Sophia Lea were witnesses at the marriage of Edward and Ann Maria Lee.

                                        Vera

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