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  • Originally posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
    so, where was William Swift Hooper? You would think he also reverted to Swift as a surname?
    I'm wondering about this as a possible death for him.
    HOOPER, WILLIAM aged 1 - GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in CLERKENWELL Volume 01B Page 423

    Oops missed your last post, let me just check....
    Last edited by teasie; 05-03-19, 12:37.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
      Just checked Hedgerley not so near, Shenley is completely different as it will be surrounded by 100s of houses built since 1950s



      Can't click through on Aus ancestry - but sounds like a great find with Wilats next door!
      My great great great grandparents owned this at one point - https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/149884.

      Sadly we don't own anything remotely as palatial any more

      Comment


      • I think that 1862 death I found and the burial you found are one & the same, and yes, I think it's him.

        The baptism says 27 Albert Street, Penton Street (not Pentonville), but that was very close to Pentonville (hence the name Penton Street!)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by teasie View Post
          I think that 1862 death I found and the burial you found are one & the same, and yes, I think it's him.

          The baptism says 27 Albert Street, Penton Street (not Pentonville), but that was very close to Pentonville (hence the name Penton Street!)
          Thank you so much. I always have trouble with Victorian London geography.

          I think that's another mystery solved - much appreciated

          Comment


          • This might help then. It shows that Henry Street leads onto White Lion Street, and intersects with Penton Street. Albert Street will probably be one of the small un-named streets leading off, possibly to the right of the letters T & R on 'Penton Str'



            EDIT - no, Albert Street is higher up the map - see revised:

            Last edited by teasie; 05-03-19, 12:56.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by teasie View Post
              This might help then. It shows that Henry Street leads onto White Lion Street, and intersects with Penton Street. Albert Street will probably be one of the small un-named streets leading off, possibly to the right of the letters T & R on 'Penton Str'



              EDIT - no, Albert Street is higher up the map - see revised:

              https://maps.nls.uk/view/102345964#z...5710&layers=BT
              thank you - very helpful

              Comment


              • I wonder if this is the death of William and Ellen's daughter, Mary Jane

                Name:
                Mary Jane Hooper
                Estimated birth year:
                abt 1869
                Registration Year:
                1884
                Registration Quarter:
                Apr-May-Jun
                Age at Death:
                15
                Registration district:
                Islington
                Parishes for this Registration District:
                View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
                Inferred County:
                London
                Volume:
                1b
                Page:
                202

                Comment


                • It certainly looks like it.

                  Deceased online has a burial for Mary Jane Hooper, Islington, on 17 May 1884.

                  A scan of the burial register costs £2, and the grave details showing 14 other burials is £1.50. If William was reasonably well-off he may have purchased the grave so the other burials might be other family members, but then again, they may be unrelated. Might be worth a look though?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by teasie View Post
                    It certainly looks like it.

                    Deceased online has a burial for Mary Jane Hooper, Islington, on 17 May 1884.

                    A scan of the burial register costs £2, and the grave details showing 14 other burials is £1.50. If William was reasonably well-off he may have purchased the grave so the other burials might be other family members, but then again, they may be unrelated. Might be worth a look though?
                    yes definitely worth a look, will have to purchase some vouchers and get Mary Jane's and William's and any others that seem to relate - thank you

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by teasie View Post
                      This might help then. It shows that Henry Street leads onto White Lion Street, and intersects with Penton Street. Albert Street will probably be one of the small un-named streets leading off, possibly to the right of the letters T & R on 'Penton Str'



                      EDIT - no, Albert Street is higher up the map - see revised:

                      https://maps.nls.uk/view/102345964#z...5710&layers=BT
                      - I like these maps - was looking for London maps a while back and never found any - thanks for the link

                      Originally posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
                      My great great great grandparents owned this at one point - https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/149884.

                      Sadly we don't own anything remotely as palatial any more
                      Looks like a nice place - guess your people were there before it was a boys home.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                      • The maps are good, aren't they? I've just been playing around with a later one which isn't as detailed but allows you to add 'pins', and although I haven't been able to find every address, it's clear that William generally operated in quite a small area. The two addresses he was recorded at in 1881 - Bemerton Street & Cloudesley Road - are pretty much at opposite ends of Richmond Road, which you can see on the map.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                          - I like these maps - was looking for London maps a while back and never found any - thanks for the link


                          Looks like a nice place - guess your people were there before it was a boys home.
                          They are fantastic maps! Yes, my people were last there in 1861 - getting ready to sell it and return to Australia - unfortunately greatgreatgreatgrandfather died before he could get back on a ship and family history took a different direction for greatgreatgreat grandmother

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by teasie View Post
                            The maps are good, aren't they? I've just been playing around with a later one which isn't as detailed but allows you to add 'pins', and although I haven't been able to find every address, it's clear that William generally operated in quite a small area. The two addresses he was recorded at in 1881 - Bemerton Street & Cloudesley Road - are pretty much at opposite ends of Richmond Road, which you can see on the map.
                            I'm going to have another go at them later - they are great. He did operate in a small area for a man with multiple interests!

                            And going to take another run at deceased online too - there will be more Hooper-related burials that will prove relevant, no doubt, and some of my own lot that may have become available since I looked last

                            Comment


                            • Hi all

                              I got William Hooper's burial record from deceased online - no headstone that I could find -

                              Interment Details

                              Authority
                              London Borough of Islington
                              Cemetery
                              Islington Cemetery
                              Grave reference
                              N/3/17699

                              Sort By:


                              Results per page:
                              name
                              Date
                              Date of death
                              Foulger, Dorothy May
                              25 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Woods, Marion Elizabeth
                              23 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Wood, Sidney Frank
                              21 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Humpherys, Minnie Ethel
                              16 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Eldridge, Walter John
                              16 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              St Clair, Eline
                              12 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Murray, Frederick William
                              10 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Gard, Lily B
                              10 September 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Jeffryes, James
                              23 August 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Bayner, Charles Henry
                              19 August 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Trigg, Mary Agnes
                              20 July 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Turnham, Alice
                              17 July 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Burton, John
                              11 July 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Hooper, William
                              04 July 1895
                              Unrecorded
                              Franks, Edward
                              03 July 1895
                              Unrecorded

                              Would this mean he was buried in a common grave?

                              I also have a copy of the burial register for him and one for his youngest son William, but can't seem to insert them here.

                              thanks

                              Comment


                              • Without seeing the actual image it's hard to say for certain, but it does look like it's a common grave. Do they all have the reference N/3/17699

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                  Without seeing the actual image it's hard to say for certain, but it does look like it's a common grave. Do they all have the reference N/3/17699
                                  I believe so, yes

                                  Comment


                                  • It does look like a common grave then. But if his brother took control of his estate then maybe there was no money for anything better? I would have thought he might have taken care to get himself a plot while he was still alive though. I know he didn't leave a huge amount, but still....

                                    Presumably Alice & Mary Jane's are a similar set-up then?

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                      It does look like a common grave then. But if his brother took control of his estate then maybe there was no money for anything better? I would have thought he might have taken care to get himself a plot while he was still alive though. I know he didn't leave a huge amount, but still....

                                      Presumably Alice & Mary Jane's are a similar set-up then?
                                      I haven't got Alice's, but Mary Jane's seems to be a common grave, yes. This is the probate record: https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...39/edit/record
                                      so there seems to have been plenty of money?

                                      I wonder if he died at home with Ellen or at Jessie's - we should order the death cert and see who was witness to the death

                                      I can see why the brother John had the money left to him though - If Lucy Webb, let alone Elizabeth Swift, were still alive when William died, then Jessie wasn't legally his wife and under the law would have gotten nothing. I imagine leaving it to brother John was safer - it might also explain why John and Jessie later married - to keep all the money in the family so to speak.

                                      Comment


                                      • Maybe the family fell out with him, and the brothers kept in touch? guess you can never find out these things.

                                        the death cert could give a few clues.
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                          Maybe the family fell out with him, and the brothers kept in touch? guess you can never find out these things.

                                          the death cert could give a few clues.
                                          yes, I think we need the death cert.

                                          I think John may have had hold of the purse strings so William wouldn't squander the money. Maybe it was held in a kind of trust. They were 2 brothers married to 2 sisters and living in close proximity so John may have been there to keep an eye on things. I found an Old Bailey record from the 1860's and John was righteous enough to give evidence and send another fellow to goal for a year for stealing one of his silk handkerchiefs.

                                          Comment

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