Customs House Officer

[thomasalbertedward]

You may well be right. I had the thought that maybe he was William's - even if he was he would have been registered as a Graham at birth I suppose?- and that because Jessie is listed as a widow on the 1881 census, she and William were estranged at the time - had she found out about Ellen and her family?- and Edwin went back to using his mother's maiden name because he wanted nothing to do with his father. So many of William's children had their mother's maiden name as their middle name too - Webb Hooper, Townsend Hooper, Swift Hooper - that he would be just like him to make the boy Graham Hooper after he married Jessie. But I'm just guessing. Obviously some time between 1881 and 1891 William and Jessie got back together.

To add to the fun, after William deserted Caroline Townsend, she went to live with a man who had originally been called Adam Sturgess. He came from Kintbury in Berkshire. But because he had a criminal record he took her name and became Adam Townsend - I've found their children were registered with surname Townsend and mother's maiden name Hooper. And William's two boys who came to Australia used the name Hooper Townsend.

[teasie]

Personally I think William had his hands full enough with Caroline & Elizabeth at the time that Edwin was born, bearing in mind that John Willats Hooper didn't marry Emily Elizabeth Graham until 1867, so they may not even have met as early as 1862.

I'm not having a great deal of success locating Elizabeth & William Jr unfortunately. The witnesses to the 1859 marriage appear to have been her brother William and his wife (?) Eliza nee Gregory (in the 1861 as Ellen), but Elizabeth is not with them in 1871, nor is she back with her family in Shenley Brook End. The only possible clue is that there is a grandson there named Charles Smith aged 4. Unfortunately I can't find his birth, unless he was born as James Charles Swift (no mmn).

I got quite excited as a William Swift Hooper married Emily Elizabeth Hall in Kensington in 1880, but the census shows him as an estate agent born c1838, father William, a retired confectioner born Holborn.

[thomasalbertedward]

Personally I think William had his hands full enough with Caroline & Elizabeth at the time that Edwin was born, bearing in mind that John Willats Hooper didn't marry Emily Elizabeth Graham until 1867, so they may not even have met as early as 1862.

I'm not having a great deal of success locating Elizabeth & William Jr unfortunately. The witnesses to the 1859 marriage appear to have been her brother William and his wife (?) Eliza nee Gregory (in the 1861 as Ellen), but Elizabeth is not with them in 1871, nor is she back with her family in Shenley Brook End. The only possible clue is that there is a grandson there named Charles Smith aged 4. Unfortunately I can't find his birth, unless he was born as James Charles Swift (no mmn).

I got quite excited as a William Swift Hooper married Emily Elizabeth Hall in Kensington in 1880, but the census shows him as an estate agent born c1838, father William, a retired confectioner born Holborn.

This is William Swift Hooper's birth registration in 1861 -
HOOPER, WILLIAM
SWIFT
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 223 - but after that he seems to disappear. I suspect Elizabeth may have gotten a new partner and changed her son's surname and I have searched for Elizabeths from Buckinghamshire born 1838 but nothing is jumping out at me yet.

Yes, I became highly excited at Mr William Swift Hooper the estate agent too - but I can't see a connection. He died in 1906 I think - found his probate leaving everything to his daughter Lillian.

[thomasalbertedward]

Personally I think William had his hands full enough with Caroline & Elizabeth at the time that Edwin was born, bearing in mind that John Willats Hooper didn't marry Emily Elizabeth Graham until 1867, so they may not even have met as early as 1862.

I'm not having a great deal of success locating Elizabeth & William Jr unfortunately. The witnesses to the 1859 marriage appear to have been her brother William and his wife (?) Eliza nee Gregory (in the 1861 as Ellen), but Elizabeth is not with them in 1871, nor is she back with her family in Shenley Brook End. The only possible clue is that there is a grandson there named Charles Smith aged 4. Unfortunately I can't find his birth, unless he was born as James Charles Swift (no mmn).

I got quite excited as a William Swift Hooper married Emily Elizabeth Hall in Kensington in 1880, but the census shows him as an estate agent born c1838, father William, a retired confectioner born Holborn.

Maybe Elizabeth's new partner was called Smith? Though she had a few sisters, so little Charles could also belong to one of them? Will go and check - thank you

[thomasalbertedward]

Personally I think William had his hands full enough with Caroline & Elizabeth at the time that Edwin was born, bearing in mind that John Willats Hooper didn't marry Emily Elizabeth Graham until 1867, so they may not even have met as early as 1862.

I'm not having a great deal of success locating Elizabeth & William Jr unfortunately. The witnesses to the 1859 marriage appear to have been her brother William and his wife (?) Eliza nee Gregory (in the 1861 as Ellen), but Elizabeth is not with them in 1871, nor is she back with her family in Shenley Brook End. The only possible clue is that there is a grandson there named Charles Smith aged 4. Unfortunately I can't find his birth, unless he was born as James Charles Swift (no mmn).

I got quite excited as a William Swift Hooper married Emily Elizabeth Hall in Kensington in 1880, but the census shows him as an estate agent born c1838, father William, a retired confectioner born Holborn.

I wonder if it's significant that Elizabeth's brother Aaron - living in Buckinghamshire in 1871 - was living in the Islington area by 1891?

[thomasalbertedward]

Just found this 1881 census with lots of Elizabeth's family on it - will try and sort them out later after dinner - thanks

https://www.ancestry.com.au/interactive/7572/MDXRG11_1363_1366-0950?pid=15799381&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7572%26h%3D15799381%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DPyG11646%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PyG11646&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[cbcarolyn]

Was at library yesterday and did a quick search for hooper tobacconist and the bankruptcy was 1842.

good to see the summary where you were at, what a very complicated family they were.

It makes you try to imagine what they were like, was he just a really nice guy that just couldn't settle, or was he quite odd and managed to bully these people. And did the family know about all his relationships! questions that will never be answered. Are you tracing each of the children too?

[thomasalbertedward]

Was at library yesterday and did a quick search for hooper tobacconist and the bankruptcy was 1842.

good to see the summary where you were at, what a very complicated family they were.

It makes you try to imagine what they were like, was he just a really nice guy that just couldn't settle, or was he quite odd and managed to bully these people. And did the family know about all his relationships! questions that will never be answered. Are you tracing each of the children too?

That is exactly right. What strikes me is that Lucy, Caroline and Ellen were all illiterate country girls and William was obviously well-educated and I would say very charming - but with a ruthless streak as well - abandoning partners and children to the workhouse.

I am tracing each of the children as best I can. George and Henry are quite easy - they lived in the town where I live and they're in our local cemetery - Emma I can't locate yet - Stephen Hooper became a portmanteau maker and had a family - still on the trail of William Swift Hooper too - Edwin Graham married a lady called Jessie Roberts and had a family, worked as a printer - Ellen married a man called Barringer - still on the trail of Mary Jane - youngest son William died at 21 and Rebecca, Caroline and Alice all died young.

I've been wondering about the family too - especially as he and his brother married 2 sisters. His parents and grandparents were a very religious lot, so William's activities would not have met with approval. Also he left quite a bit of money when he died, but never seemed to be living in very well-off areas of London after he left Caroline Townsend Hooper, so I wonder if the family had control of his share of the money somehow and only gave it to him in dribs and drabs because they knew he would otherwise squander it all on wine, women and song

Thanks again

[cbcarolyn]

I secretly hope that Caroline kicked William out...even though she ended up in the workhouse!

Impressed with the detective work on Carolines new partner.

Also amazing that pretty much all the records found were for William, just didn't seem right at the beginning!

Maybe one day you will find a few of the records around Williams customs house career.

Shenley Brook End is just down the road from me - it is now part of Milton Keynes.

[teasie]

Wondered if this may be of interest:

http://ww2.berkshirenclosure.org.uk/calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=R%2fD%2f142%2f2%2f4&pos=29

[thomasalbertedward]

Was at library yesterday and did a quick search for hooper tobacconist and the bankruptcy was 1842.

good to see the summary where you were at, what a very complicated family they were.

It makes you try to imagine what they were like, was he just a really nice guy that just couldn't settle, or was he quite odd and managed to bully these people. And did the family know about all his relationships! questions that will never be answered. Are you tracing each of the children too?

So have found Elizabeth in 1881 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true

Living with her brother Charles and brother Arron George in London and with a number of Swift nephews and nieces, back to using her maiden name. The ages are a bit out , but it's definitely them. Now I'm wondering if the George Swift on this record is William Swift Hooper grown up and the Charley Swift is another son of Elizabeth's born after she and William parted. Certainly if she found out he was a bigamist and a cheater, she might have changed her eldest son's name and she obviously reverted to her maiden name. There is this birth that could be Charley: SWIFT, CHARLES
-
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 123

And here they are in 1871 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true
Again the ages are a bit out, but it's Elizabeth and her brother Charles and George Swift, who again could be her eldest son. No sign of Charley on this one. And, there's an Edward Willat there as well - I've actually found Willats as neighbours to the Swift family on an earlier census in Buckinghamshire, so I would say it was through the Willats that William met Elizabeth

[thomasalbertedward]

I secretly hope that Caroline kicked William out...even though she ended up in the workhouse!

Impressed with the detective work on Carolines new partner.

Also amazing that pretty much all the records found were for William, just didn't seem right at the beginning!

Maybe one day you will find a few of the records around Williams customs house career.

Shenley Brook End is just down the road from me - it is now part of Milton Keynes.

Adam wasn't that hard to track down actually. It helped that he was an Adam, rather than an Edward or a Charles and he religiously recorded his birthplace as Kintbury on all census records. There must have been a lot of contact between the families, even after Henry and George emigrated, because Adam and Caroline had two daughters, an Alice and a Rose Edith whom would both have been little when their brothers came to Qld - Alice about 7 and Rose was 2 or 3. Henry had 2 daughters and called both Rose Edith and sadly they both died young - the first as a baby and the second aged 5. George married a Norwegian lady called Elvene and named one of his girls Alice. I suppose it was a family gesture because the two parts of the family were thousands of miles apart and never saw each other again.

I would love to see places like Shenley - my own lot are from the Berkshire/Buckinghamshire area too and I'm always looking at places like Hedgerley on Google Earth

[thomasalbertedward]

Wondered if this may be of interest:
http://ww2.berkshirenclosure.org.uk/...2f2%2f4&pos=29

What a marvellous find! yes, thank you - we'll have to get a copy.

[thomasalbertedward]

What a marvellous find! yes, thank you - we'll have to get a copy.

Have just sent off an email to them - thank you again

[thomasalbertedward]

Wondered if this may be of interest:
http://ww2.berkshirenclosure.org.uk/...2f2%2f4&pos=29

Have just emailed them, thank you

[thomasalbertedward]

So have found Elizabeth in 1881 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true

Living with her brother Charles and brother Arron George in London and with a number of Swift nephews and nieces, back to using her maiden name. The ages are a bit out , but it's definitely them. Now I'm wondering if the George Swift on this record is William Swift Hooper grown up and the Charley Swift is another son of Elizabeth's born after she and William parted. Certainly if she found out he was a bigamist and a cheater, she might have changed her eldest son's name and she obviously reverted to her maiden name. There is this birth that could be Charley: SWIFT, CHARLES
-
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 123

And here they are in 1871 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true
Again the ages are a bit out, but it's Elizabeth and her brother Charles and George Swift, who again could be her eldest son. No sign of Charley on this one. And, there's an Edward Willat there as well - I've actually found Willats as neighbours to the Swift family on an earlier census in Buckinghamshire, so I would say it was through the Willats that William met Elizabeth

I'm being a bit slow - Charley must be the Charles Smith with grandparents in 1871 - must need more coffee ;)

[teasie]

George Swift born 1855 has the mmn Gregory, so I'd say he was probably William Swift's son.

Charles may be the James Charles Swift (no mmn) recorded as Smith in 1871.

The Horn children appear to be Sarah Jane's children - Sarah Jane Swift married Thomas Horn in Halifax in 1872

[thomasalbertedward]

George Swift born 1855 has the mmn Gregory, so I'd say he was probably William Swift's son.

Charles may be the James Charles Swift (no mmn) recorded as Smith in 1871.

The Horn children appear to be Sarah Jane's children - Sarah Jane Swift married Thomas Horn in Halifax in 1872

Yes, I think you're right - William Swift's son - so, where was William Swift Hooper? You would think he also reverted to Swift as a surname?

Charles Smith was supposedly 4 in 1871, so you would think he was born about 1867?

Thank you for the information on the Horns -

[cbcarolyn]

Adam wasn't that hard to track down actually. It helped that he was an Adam, rather than an Edward or a Charles and he religiously recorded his birthplace as Kintbury on all census records. There must have been a lot of contact between the families, even after Henry and George emigrated, because Adam and Caroline had two daughters, an Alice and a Rose Edith whom would both have been little when their brothers came to Qld - Alice about 7 and Rose was 2 or 3. Henry had 2 daughters and called both Rose Edith and sadly they both died young - the first as a baby and the second aged 5. George married a Norwegian lady called Elvene and named one of his girls Alice. I suppose it was a family gesture because the two parts of the family were thousands of miles apart and never saw each other again.

I would love to see places like Shenley - my own lot are from the Berkshire/Buckinghamshire area too and I'm always looking at places like Hedgerley on Google Earth

Just checked Hedgerley not so near, Shenley is completely different as it will be surrounded by 100s of houses built since 1950s

So have found Elizabeth in 1881 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true

Living with her brother Charles and brother Arron George in London and with a number of Swift nephews and nieces, back to using her maiden name. The ages are a bit out , but it's definitely them. Now I'm wondering if the George Swift on this record is William Swift Hooper grown up and the Charley Swift is another son of Elizabeth's born after she and William parted. Certainly if she found out he was a bigamist and a cheater, she might have changed her eldest son's name and she obviously reverted to her maiden name. There is this birth that could be Charley: SWIFT, CHARLES
-
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 123

And here they are in 1871 - https://www.ancestry.com.au/interact...&usePUBJs=true
Again the ages are a bit out, but it's Elizabeth and her brother Charles and George Swift, who again could be her eldest son. No sign of Charley on this one. And, there's an Edward Willat there as well - I've actually found Willats as neighbours to the Swift family on an earlier census in Buckinghamshire, so I would say it was through the Willats that William met Elizabeth

Can't click through on Aus ancestry - but sounds like a great find with Wilats next door!

[thomasalbertedward]

I wonder if this is William Swift Hooper's death, aged 18 months?

https://www.ancestry.com.au/interactive/2972/40612_B0152044-00167?pid=2900894&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2972%26h%3D2900894%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DPyG11767%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PyG11767&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

On his baptism record, it says he was born 9th April 1861 and his parents lived in Albert Street, Pentonville. This record would make him 18 months old and the address is Henry Street, Pentonville.
Is that plausible?