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looking for John fagan

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  • looking for John fagan

    Hi everybody. I’ve come to a dead end. My g grandfather was called Samuel fagan birn 1837. He married in 1874 at Loughgilly parish church to a Mary Rafferty. Samuel died in 1913 and buried at ballenon reformed Presbyterian church near poyntzpass. On the marriage certificate it states his father was John fagan a labourer. I have searched for John fagan and there is so many from all over Ireland I can’t get a handle on him at all.
    Going back to samuel fagan he may have been in Royal Navy before he married. On the HMS Marlborough according to 1861 England census. I tried to get his navy record but no luck. On the census states place of both was coleraine which is a new on on us.
    I have traced many of our family and have over 2000 names on the tree but this man I cannot find. Aghhh.
    Thank you for any guidance you can give.

  • #2
    If you look at the 1874 marriage certificate, the bride’s father is recorded as deceased. By inference the groom’s father, John Fegan, is alive. If you search the death records for the Newry registration area 1874 onwards there are several John Fegan, labourer, deaths that might fit. Note the surname seems consistently Fegan not Fagan. (They are available to view free on the irishgenealogy site).

    This looks to be your family in the 1901 & 1911 censuses. Neither gives Samuel’s place of birth as Coleraine. The 1901 says Ireland and the 1911 says Co. Armagh.





    I’d suspect Samuel was born near Ballenon. The Reformed Presbyterian/Covenanter church there doesn’t have any baptisms prior to 1860, so that may be hard to confirm.

    The Valuation revision records on the PRONI website show Samuel acquiring the Ballynaleck farm in 1893. It was plot 30, a 4 acre holding.

    A couple of Probate abstracts from the PRONI wills website, in case you don’t already have them:

    Administration of the Estate of Samuel Fegan late of Ballinaleck County Armagh Farmer who died 3 May 1913 at Ballenon in said County granted at Armagh to James Samuel Fegan Farmer.

    Fegan James Samuel of Ballynaleck Poyntzpass county Armagh farmer died 8 December 1953 Administration Belfast 9 August to Annie Eleanor Fegan the widow. Effects £207 5s.
    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Elwyn. I wonder where Samuel was living from date of his marriage until he bought ballnaleck.?? Right I’ll check for John Fagan/Fegan again and see if something jumps up for me. Still I wonder why samuel put coleraine as place of birth when he on the Marlborough ship which was docked at Portsmouth in 1861. It’s a massive jigsaw which I can’t get all pieces to fit.
      Thanks again. Lorna

      Comment


      • #4
        Checked for John Fegan on Irish genealogy again and I’ve narrowed it down to 7!! 2 from Rathfriland!! Cleomack and Letrim. Never heard of them before so I’ll have to do a bit of searching. Thank you

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you sure the Samuel in the 1861 census is the same Samuel who was later living in Co. Armagh? That could explain the discrepancy over the place of birth.

          Regarding where Samuel lived prior to acquiring the farm, when he married he was a labourer. Labourers are not always in the Valuation records. Firstly they moved around a lot to follow available work and often got missed because the Griffiths clerks only updated the records every 32 or 3 years, and secondly they often lived in houses of too low a value to be worth listing. And sometimes they lodged with better off relatives, another reason.

          I noticed one of the possible John Fegan deaths was in Newry Workhouse. I wondered about him.
          Elwyn

          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe you are right about the 1861 census. I’ll set it to the side for now. Yes I saw that John in the workhouse. Hmmm
            ill concentrate on the Rathfriland ones and see what comes up. Thanks for your guidance. Lorna.

            Comment


            • #7
              On FMP there is a burial at the Haslar Royal Naval hospital, Alverstoke, Hants for 24/04/1861 for

              Samuel Fagen
              Born 1836

              However, I note the 1861 census was for the night of 07/04/1861

              Vera

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Vera. Yes dates don’t quite match up. I have searched for johns son Samuel born 1837 married Mary rafferty in 1874 at loughgill parish church. Died 1913 but I cannot find place of birth or burial place. I had contacted ballenon reformed church but no reply. Hard to know where to try next. Something in the back of my mind there is a Rathfriland connection as there was a covenanter church there too.
                Thank you. Lorna.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In Ireland people aren’t always buried in the graveyard of the church they attended. Sometimes they had family plots in a different churchyard, and many Presbyterian and Reformed Presbyterian churches didn't have graveyards. So you often find Presbyterians in shared graveyards, Church of Ireland or council owned graveyards.
                  Elwyn

                  I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks elwyn. I now am concentrating on rathfriland/ cavanconnection. A Patrick Fegan b 1763 farmer but was in 6th regiment of Dragoons. Died 1798. And a John Fegan b 1765 in rathfriland also in 6 th reg of Dragoons discharged from army after kick from a horse. Died 1807. Now to track any marriages/births. Etc.
                    Thank you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Gosh I’ve been round the world searching for Samuel Fegan and I can’t track him at all nor his father John. You would think they didn’t want to be found.
                      There are John fegans in America and England , fegans who went to Australia but I cannot link them at all.
                      Thus has posed a real challenge for us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello everyone. I’m still searching for the elusive John Fegan. I’ve come across a John Fegan who was apprentice indentured in merchant navy. Could this be why I can’t find out anything about him. No place of birth, marriage or death??? If Samuel his son was on a ship in Portsmouth in 1861 maybe he joined merchant navy too for a while. Hard to make out names of who they were assigned to. I did notice they travelled and was listed as coastal and foreign travel so assume the navy travelled the high seas. It’s like chipping at a stone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Although a Samuel Fegan was on a ship in 1861, not sure he was Navy. He was a Private RMSJ. Not sure either what RMSJ means.
                          The burial of the Samuel Fegan 1861 records just J.

                          Will see if I can at least eliminate him.

                          Vera

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Looking at beginning of Census, Marines on board as well as Officers, Seamen and Boys

                            Vera
                            Last edited by vera2013; 10-03-19, 20:09.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks Vera. Really I’m clutching at anything to make a connection between Samuel who died 1913 and his father John whom I know nothing about. Frustrating to say the least. We understand they were Covenanters and tried to track down that why too but no luck.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                National Archives
                                1814-1868
                                Navy, Royal Marines and Coastguard
                                ADM 158/45/9/35

                                Samuel Fegen
                                18 years 5 months
                                Place of Birth Ballyarkrin, Coleraine, Londonderry

                                Royal Marines, Woolwich Div F

                                Can't find a Ballyarkrin in Coleraine. Don't think the 1861 is yours. More likely to be the one who died at the Haslar Naval Hospital.

                                Vera

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Maybe we totally on wrong track. Not sure what direction to go now. They are so hard to find. Thank you Vera .

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Lorna View Post
                                    Thank you Elwyn. I wonder where Samuel was living from date of his marriage until he bought Ballynaleck
                                    Just in case you dont have the info

                                    The two children on the 1901 James S and Minnie are registered

                                    Under Fagan
                                    Samuel James b 16/11/1875 Ballydogherty
                                    Mary b 25/12/1877 Ballydogherty

                                    Ballydogherty as you may recall was Mary Rafferty's residence at time of marriage to Samuel.

                                    I'm poking around a bit in Irish Genealogy. Looking at Robert Malcolmson witness to the 1874 wedding. Possibly only a farming neighbour but will check for possible relation.

                                    Vera
                                    Last edited by vera2013; 12-03-19, 06:20.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I looked at the Valuation Revision records (on the PRONI website) for Ballydogherty, Co. Armagh covering the years 1875 – 1877. The Fegan family weren’t listed. So that means that either they were lodging with someone else or their property was of too low a value to be worth listing. (Less than £5 a year). Many labourers and weavers lived in that sort of property and so didn’t get listed. There were 2 Rafferty households there Isaac on plot 2cc and Joseph on 4c. Both were labourers cottages. Possibly they lived there. No real way of finding out.

                                      One of the things to think about with this Fegan family is that they were in the Loughgilly area but they simply don’t appear in any records. The censuses they would have been listed in have all been destroyed, save for a few fragments for 1841 & 1851. As labourers they were much less likely to be listed in any land records. Samuel was born c 1837. That’s long before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864), so you won’t find a birth certificate for him. You might find his baptism but if he was baptised at Ballenon Reformed Presbyterian church then their records don't go back far enough. This is what exists for that church:

                                      Baptisms, 1860-77; marriages, 1851-1934; deaths, 1850-68, with three references, 1880-95; register of admissions, 1849-67; register of departures, 1849-68; session minutes, 1820-67 with list of members, 1820- 21; session and committee minutes, 1897- 1905; diary entries, 1850-67; stipend list, 1853; stipend accounts listing names, 1854-1913; collection accounts, 1860-65; session minutes, accounts and correspondence, 1819- 83; accounts, 1954-85; Sunday School roll book, 1928-40.

                                      The above records are not on-line. They are in PRONI and a personal visit is required to view them.

                                      Likewise his father was presumably married pre 1837. That’s before the start of statutory registration for marriages (1845, for non RC, 1864 for RC) so again it won’t be in the stat records. You might find it in church records but you would need to know which church. (Tradition being to marry in the bride’s). If it was Ballenon RP then clearly you won’t find it as their records don’t go back far enough. But there are other churches in the area with records that do cover that period. But few of them are on-line. You would need to search them in PRONI.

                                      So to summarise, the reason you aren’t finding much on the family is that there aren’t many relevant records to search, and some of what there is, is not available on-line.
                                      Elwyn

                                      I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thank you so much for all this information. Yes I think a visit to PRONI is the way to go.
                                        Ill keep going as I would love to find out more about them. Lorna

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