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  • Help with German/Prussia research

    Hello,

    A two-year brick wall has finally crumbled, and I now have new members of my family tree. This is what I know:

    Henry Miller (d. 1898, Newark) married Elizabeth White (d. 1890, Newark) in Spittlegate (part of Grantham), in Lincolnshire in 1848.
    Henry was born around 1828, in Prussia. Elizabeth was born around 1821 - birthplace just given as Germany.
    Both were musicians according to census records, although Henry also worked as a labourer and as an ostler.
    Henry's father was John, a bricklayer. Elizabeth's was Francis, a carpenter.
    Their names would've been Anglicised, and the German versions would be Muller or Weiss.
    There is a Matthias Miller (born around 1830), also a musician, living in Newark around the same time. His father was Frederick. Possible cousin?

    If anyone can provide any help, I'd be greatly appreciative. It was so exciting to have found these people, and would be even more exciting to trace at least one of them back to Germany (Elizabeth looking the most likely as her father had a specific occupation, and Franz is a bit more rare than Johan).

    Thanks,

    Adam

  • #2
    The marriage and bps of my Prussian connections were recorded on family search, as were family events after they moved to Russia. Have you consulted that site?

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, but there’s so many I was going to see if anyone could offer some help, especially if there were any experts on Prussian genealogy.

      Comment


      • #4
        My thoughts would be, do you know for sure they are german, as opposed to father's who may have been in the army at one point for instance. Maybe see if you can locate service records for the fathers? Or them in early census records?

        Have you looked at naturalisation records? Though they may be a bit early.

        As you may know, prussia is a state within germany. But during the 18th and 19th centuries, it was THE german state, and unified germany in 1874. When people refer to "prussia" in contemporary records, they refer to the individual state and the whole of germany interchangeably. So be careful when searching for their origins.

        Lastly, eastern germany, and it's former territories in modern poland and the czech republic are not well covered online. Familysearch is a useful tool as you know. Your best bet is to try and work out where in germany/prussia they were from. That will be the difficult part.

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        • #5
          I’ve found neither father in England. Both are recorded as being born in Germany (1861 - 1881) although Henry says Prussia in 1891. There are no Millers or Whites born in Germany living in Nottinghamshire or Lincolnshire at the same time other than the aforementioned Matthias Miller.

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          • #6
            But thanks for your help!

            Comment


            • #7
              Did you look on freereg?

              Search your ancestry with FreeREG. FreeREG provides free online access to transcriptions of birth, marriage and burial records from Church of England and Church of Scotland registers. You can also use FreeREG to discover: non-Conformist records from England, Scotland and Wales, Municipal Cemetary records, Memorial records and documents relating to life events out of country, at sea and in the military.
              Elaine

              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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              • #8
                Yes, that’s how I found marriage records for both Millers. I don’t know if they have any German records.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AdamMcGregor View Post
                  Hello,

                  <snip>
                  Henry Miller (d. 1898, Newark) married Elizabeth White (d. 1890, Newark) in Spittlegate (part of Grantham), in Lincolnshire in 1848.
                  Henry was born around 1828, in Prussia. Elizabeth was born around 1821 - birthplace just given as Germany.
                  Both were musicians according to census records, although Henry also worked as a labourer and as an ostler.
                  Henry's father was John, a bricklayer. Elizabeth's was Francis, a carpenter.
                  Their names would've been Anglicised, and the German versions would be Muller or Weiss.
                  There is a Matthias Miller (born around 1830), also a musician, living in Newark around the same time. His father was Frederick. Possible cousin?

                  If anyone can provide any help, I'd be greatly appreciative. It was so exciting to have found these people, and would be even more exciting to trace at least one of them back to Germany (Elizabeth looking the most likely as her father had a specific occupation, and Franz is a bit more rare than Johan).

                  Thanks,

                  Adam
                  You'd expect "Henry Miller" to have been "Heinrich Müller" - or "Mueller" (ü = ue). His father's name would have been "Johann" or "Johannes".
                  Likewise "Elizabeth White" to have been "Elisabeth Weiß" (the double-s sometimes looks a bit like "ƒs"). Her father's name would have been "Franz" or, just possibly "Franzis".
                  Matthew/Matthias Miller/Müller's father would have been "Fried(e)rich". If they're all in the same area and from sonewhere distant, there's a good chance that they're related - but coincidences do happen.
                  I am presuming that they have simplay translated their names and not changed them completely.

                  If you haven't already got the marriage cert, you may find this site useful (unless they were not married in a CofE church): http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ (I downloaded the relevant file eight years ago. The marriage is listed, but the only detail (on the Jan 2011 version, anyway), additional to what you've mentioned, is that it took place on 20 July (1848).
                  This one is also useful: https://www.lincstothepast.com/advanced-search/ (Though I haven't been able to persuade the Search to cough up anything useful for you, I'm afraid.)
                  This is another place where you might find formal notices - such as naturalisation - though Miller and White are a bit of a daunting prospect: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices
                  This is the advanced search page for TNA: http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...&_d=HO&_hb=tna
                  Last edited by Christine in Herts; 10-02-19, 15:36.
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all of that. I’ve gone down the Anglicisation route, but nothing really sticks out - I don’t speak German so a father’s occupation would probably tip the balance. I’ve read the marriage record on FreeREG, and their children were christened C of E. I haven’t found them in 1851, but they would likely have been in Sleaford, Lincs. at that time. I’ve looked through naturalisation and immigration papers, and there was one in 1840 for a Heinrich Muller, a musician; however Henry would’ve only been about 12 at that time so it seems unlikely.

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                    • #11
                      I'm not sure what background info you have, but i'm not sold they were actually german, as opposed to them being born there from (army?) british families.

                      Do the marriage wittnesses help?

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                      • #12
                        Henry’s father was John, a bricklayer, and Elizabeth’s was Francis, a carpenter. Neither appear in England. Witnesses were John Fisher and Clara Close. There could be a military background, as my ancestor (their grandson) spent 3 years in a militia battalion in the 1880s. Neither Henry or Elizabeth appears to be in England at the time of the 1841 Census.

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                        • #13
                          have you tried looking for the name "vice"? "weiss" in german would be pronounced "vice", so "white" would be an unusual anglicisation.

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                          • #14
                            That’s a good idea. I’ve tried Weiss and Weitz thus far. Thanks!

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                            • #15
                              There’s two possible results: one in Islington and one in Whitechapel. No sign of a Francis/Franz :(

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