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  • #21
    Have to go to bed now here in Oz, but thanks for all your help today - greatly appreciated.

    Will get back on to it again tomorrow

    Comment


    • #22
      still looking but not seeing much.. they are either badly transcribed or have married or snuffed it...

      not much to go on I'm afraid.. did any of her brothers ever mention either Alice or Rose in their time in Aus? did they leave any wills?
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
        Have to go to bed now here in Oz, but thanks for all your help today - greatly appreciated.

        Will get back on to it again tomorrow
        'k I'll have a think and see if I can suggest anything else.. nite
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #24
          Morning from Oz

          Will have a chat to my friend today and see what other clues anyone may have ??

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
            'k I'll have a think and see if I can suggest anything else.. nite
            Evening from Oz

            After going through everything I know about at the moment, I'm not making any great progress this evening - though brick walls are made to be broken I hope

            George Townsend called one of his daughters Alice and Henry called one of his Rose Edith, so obviously they were fond of their sisters. Both left all their property to their respective wives when they died - according to the newspaper probate records.

            Looked again at Rose's birth and saw that she was registered as Edith Rose, though I don't imagine she ever used "Edith" on official documents. Tried to find her on an electoral roll after 1928, but no luck so far.

            And had another look at Emma Townsend - who was baptised and registered as Emma Hooper - but so far can't find her after 1881:
            Emma Townsend
            18
            abt 1863
            Servant
            Female
            Camden Town, Middlesex, England
            Hammersmith
            London
            England
            39 Bridge Rd

            View image
            General Servant
            Fulham
            St Paul Hammersmith
            4
            View others on page
            54
            122
            20
            Will keep on looking for a little while longer and then amble off to see what is new on BBC first - thanks again

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
              Evening from Oz

              After going through everything I know about at the moment, I'm not making any great progress this evening - though brick walls are made to be broken I hope

              George Townsend called one of his daughters Alice and Henry called one of his Rose Edith, so obviously they were fond of their sisters. Both left all their property to their respective wives when they died - according to the newspaper probate records.

              Looked again at Rose's birth and saw that she was registered as Edith Rose, though I don't imagine she ever used "Edith" on official documents. Tried to find her on an electoral roll after 1928, but no luck so far.

              And had another look at Emma Townsend - who was baptised and registered as Emma Hooper - but so far can't find her after 1881
              hmmmn, can we recap please?

              Caroline Townsend & William Hooper have 4 children:

              Caroline b.? d?
              George b ? d?
              Henry b? d?
              Emma HOOPER MMN TOWNSEND b.1862 [volume 01A page 412] d.?

              then Caroline is with Adam Sturgess/Townsend and they have:

              Alice Townsend b. 1867 in birth index but with NO MMN showing - [Volume 01A page 111]
              Edith Rose Townsend b. 1871 MMN HOOPER in index [volume 01A page 94]


              now there IS an Edith Townsend b.1871 to Richard & Emmaline who appears on census as Edith Townsend. on the 1891 there is an Edith visiting Maryann Cross and her occupation is a Book sewer. She marries in 1893 to Ernest Albert Osbourne. Her address at time of marriage ties in with the 1891 census so she can be discounted as Edith Rose Townsend.

              am thinking on my feet here, so may well be adding to this post.
              Last edited by Darksecretz; 23-01-19, 09:58.
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #27
                Re Emma, have you looked at all possible marriages after 1881 census? it's a long slog but sometimes pays off if you can match the couples up and find them in census to confirm/eliminate them. Seems odd that she just disappears after 1881.
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #28
                  I'm still looking but not finding much I'm afraid.

                  might it be an idea to track each and every Townsend you can and place them with respective families then what is left may well be yours?

                  do you/your friend have any other bits of info? addresses? electoral roll info? relatives? might be as well to get Carolines death cert too, it could be a family member that registered it. [even if it wasn't a family member at least you would know and not wonder if it was or not]
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    The internet is going crazy here tonight, so I'll try again:

                    Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                    hmmmn, can we recap please?

                    Caroline Townsend & William Hooper have 4 children:

                    Caroline b.? d?
                    George b ? d?
                    Henry b? d?
                    Emma HOOPER MMN TOWNSEND b.1862 [volume 01A page 412] d.?

                    then Caroline is with Adam Sturgess/Townsend and they have:

                    Alice Townsend b. 1867 in birth index but with NO MMN showing - [Volume 01A page 111]
                    Edith Rose Townsend b. 1871 MMN HOOPER in index [volume 01A page 94]


                    now there IS an Edith Townsend b.1871 to Richard & Emmaline who appears on census as Edith Townsend. on the 1891 there is an Edith visiting Maryann Cross and her occupation is a Book sewer. She marries in 1893 to Ernest Albert Osbourne. Her address at time of marriage ties in with the 1891 census so she can be discounted as Edith Rose Townsend.

                    am thinking on my feet here, so may well be adding to this post.
                    Hi from a VERY warm Qld evening

                    Yes all correct - Caroline Townsend and William Hooper had four children:

                    Name: Caroline Townshend Hooper
                    Gender: Female
                    Baptism Date:7 Jan 1855
                    Baptism Place:Holborn St Giles in the Fields, Camden, England
                    Father:William Hooper
                    Mother:Caroline Hooper


                    Name: George William Hooper
                    Gender: Male
                    Baptism Date:
                    14 Jun 1857
                    Baptism Place: St John the Evangelist, Westminster, England
                    Father: William Hooper
                    Mother:Caroline Hooper
                    Last edited by Darksecretz; 24-01-19, 09:02. Reason: tidied up

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      HOOPER, HENRY
                      mmn Townsend
                      GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 118


                      Name: Emma Hooper
                      Gender: Female
                      Birth Date:4 Aug 1862
                      Baptism Date:4 Sep 1862
                      Baptism Place: Workhouse Chapel,St Marylebone,London,England
                      Father:William Hooper
                      Mother:Caroline
                      Last edited by Darksecretz; 24-01-19, 09:35.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Sorry, for the multiple posts - internet here is a bit crazy tonight which usually means there's a storm somewhere

                        Daughter Caroline's death:

                        Name:Caroline Townsend
                        Registration Year:1856
                        Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
                        Registration district: Camberwell


                        Have found Caroline in the 1851 census before she was co-habiting with Mr Hooper:
                        Name:Caroline Townsend
                        Age:22
                        Estimated birth year:
                        abt 1829
                        Relation: Servant
                        Gender: Female
                        Where born: Blenwood, Berkshire, England
                        Civil Parish: Reading St Mary
                        County/Island: Berkshire
                        Country: England
                        Street address:
                        [IMG]file:///C:/Users/MJG_B/AppData/Local/Temp/ksohtml/wps839F.tmp.jpg[/IMG]
                        View image
                        Registration district: Reading
                        Sub-registration district: St Mary ED,
                        institution, or vessel:
                        1e

                        Piece:
                        1692
                        Folio:81
                        Page Number:1
                        Household Members:
                        Name
                        Age
                        James Johnson 67
                        Ann Johnson 38
                        Mary Elizabeth Johnson 34
                        Catharine Eunice Johnson 6
                        Mary A Savory 28
                        Caroline Townsend 22
                        Francis K Ette 21
                        James C Weeks 21
                        Thomas Heningham 17
                        Thomas Ilsley 27
                        Joseph Matthews 15


                        Oxenwood has been mistranscribed as Blenwood and Oxenwood seems to have frequently changed boundaries between Berkshire and Wiltshire. I know quite a lot about Caroline's family and her many siblings - her aunt lived in Sherborne Dorset and some of her siblings ended up there as well.
                        Last edited by Darksecretz; 24-01-19, 09:17.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Moving forward in time to the 1861 census, the only one we have been able to locate is George who was being cared for as a "nurse-child" in Wimbleton:


                          Name:George Townsend
                          age: 5
                          Estimated birth year:
                          1856
                          Gender:Male
                          where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
                          Civil Parish: Wimbledon
                          County/Island: Surrey
                          Country: England


                          But I don't know where Caroline was in 1861. In January 1862 she admits herself and the two little boys into the workhouse.

                          Thank you and sorry again for the crazy internet
                          Last edited by Darksecretz; 24-01-19, 09:19.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Yes, I think you're right - she must have gotten married. And I would think she'd be married under Townsend rather than Hooper.

                            I have tried to trace some of the Emma Townsends who married, but no luck so far.

                            I've seen Henry's marriage certificate to Martha Powell and he has his father as "George William Townsend" so an amalgam of Adam/Caroline and William Hooper. ;)

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I know where Caroline's family were - traced all her brothers and sisters till their deaths and followed some of their families as well to see if there were any clues - but nothing has ever leapt out at me that would tell me what happened to Emma - or indeed her sisters.

                              Henry and George came out to Queensland in 1874, so all the rest of their story is over here.

                              And I don't know anything about the mysterious Mr William Hooper except that he's described as a "Customs officer" and a "Broker at the Quays" and finally on Emma's workhouse baptism as a "tobacconist" - but that last one just might be a fiction.

                              I'll have another look for Emma and then call it a night - look again tomorrow.

                              Thanks again for looking - your help has been brilliant

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by thomasalbertedward View Post
                                Moving forward in time to the 1861 census, the only one we have been able to locate is George who was being cared for as a "nurse-child" in Wimbleton:


                                Name:George Townsend
                                age: 5
                                Estimated birth year:
                                1856
                                Gender:Male
                                where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
                                Civil Parish: Wimbledon
                                County/Island: Surrey
                                Country: England


                                But I don't know where Caroline was in 1861. In January 1862 she admits herself and the two little boys into the workhouse.

                                Thank you and sorry again for the crazy internet

                                possibility?

                                1861: https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...ff=&ml_rpos=19
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  which workhouse in 1862? one in Kensington area ? there are parts of the 1861 census that are 'missing' so it may be that she was in London and this is why you can't find her.
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                    Good evening from Oz

                                    yes, a very interesting possibility - thanks.

                                    The only Henry/Harry Hooper born in Devizes in the right time frame is this one: https://www.ancestry.com/interactive...&usePUBJs=true
                                    so definitely not him on the record you've found.

                                    Off now to see if I can find more about the other people on the census record you found - thanks again

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                      which workhouse in 1862? one in Kensington area ? there are parts of the 1861 census that are 'missing' so it may be that she was in London and this is why you can't find her.
                                      The first workhouse she and the boys were in was St Pancras. Later she went back to the Marylebone workhouse to give birth to Emma.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Hi

                                        Just took a look at this Harry and sadly it is Cooper mistranscribed - Elizabeth Billett who is with him on the census was his grandmother and her first husband was named Cooper - Thomas Billett was her second husband.

                                        Thanks for looking though - greatly appreciated

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Hi

                                          Have found this marriage for an Emma Townsend in 1881 - father given as George Townsend of "no occupation"



                                          But cannot find them after 1881? Could you please have a look to eliminate from our enquiries or not? I am no doubt missing the obvious somewhere

                                          Thanks so much

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