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Information on Pheobe Ellen Ferniough born around 1843

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  • Information on Pheobe Ellen Ferniough born around 1843

    I am hoping that some one may be able to help me to find out for definite the mother of my gggg grand mother Phoebe Ellen Ferniough.
    I have not been able to find a birth certificate nor baptism for her that would fit with when she was born.

    I know the following about her:-

    1 Her first marriage was 10th Oct 1864, Earl Sterndale Derbyshire, to Isaac Wain (she was 20 & living at Brand Side at
    the time of the wedding.) she does not provide her father`s name for the wedding certificate.(I presume therefore that she is illegitimate.)

    2 Isaac Wain dies 1865
    3 Her Children are : Ann W1865, Fredrick W1869,Ellen W 1872, Ernest W 1874, John B1882, George B1883, William B1889
    4 2nd Marriage 1879 30 April Burbage to William Bennet

    5 Entries in Censuses:
    1851 Colshaw Hollinsclough Pheobe is classed as a visitor living with the Lomas Family
    1861 Colshaw Hollinsclough Phoebe is classed as a boarder.
    1871 Colshaw Hollinsclough Pheobe is classed a lodger.
    1881 Winterside Hollinsclough (Longnor)
    1891 Hope Cottage Burbage
    1901 Chapel en le Frith
    1911 School House Burbage (visitor)

    6 Phoebe doesn't appear to be related to the people (Lomas family) that she lived with in the 1851,1861 & 1871 census.
    George Lomas married Ellen Heathcote in 1822 7th October Hartington, Derbyshire. (F/S.org) which presumably must have been a second marriage for George, as George appears to have had a son named Isaac born circa 1812, who is shown living next door to George and Ellen on the 1841 census, with his wife Jane. Their daughter Sarah is in the household of George and Ellen in 1841 (aged 9) and is shown as their granddaughter (aged 19) on the 1851 census.

    7 This subject has been discussed on roots chat
    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index...opic=680593.18

    8
    These discussions suggested a Jane Fernehough baptised 22 November 1825 Waterfall Staffordshire parents Charles & Phoebe Fernehough could be my Phoebe Fernehough`s mother. Jane Ferneghough was living in the parental home in 1841 but was living as a servant in 1851 in Leek. Jane’s mother Phoebe died in 1840. Jane’s father Charles died in 1850 (he did no leave a will). Possibly Jane had an illegitimate daughter but had to give up the care of her due to her circumstances. However, if this was the case, I don’t know at what point this occurred between Phoebe’s birth and Phoebe’s appearance as a ‘visitor’ on the 1851 census with the Lomas
    family.

    Jane Fernyhough of Derby Street marries a John Torr at St Luke in Leek on 25 January 1853.

    9 I asked the Staffordshire Record Office if a bastardy order had been made out for Phoebe, they said that at this date the mother could make a claim for maintenance from the father through the magistrate’s court (Petty Sessions) but unfortunately Petty
    Sessions records for Staffordshire do not survive until the 1870s onwards. Where cases were disputed they could sometimes go to Quarter Sessions, for which we do have records, but this would be a long-shot
    .

    10 I asked the Staffordshire record office about adoption records but they said that, adoption was not a formal process until the 1920s and prior to that there were official channels for boarding out children, through the local Poor Law Union, although this practice was not widespread prior to the 1870s (for further information see: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/boardingout/). In any case such records do not survive for the Leek poor law union. The Record office have minute books for the Leek Union, and they could check to see if Phoebe’s mother (probably Jane) is mentioned but this is unlikely since her child was not born in the workhouse.

    11 The Leek workhouse register of births (D5188/G/1) has been searched but there were no entries for the name Fernihough (or Lomas) and no births of girls named Phoebe listed from 1840 to 1848.
    12 The Leek parish registers were searched for a baptism for a Phoebe Ellen Fernihough or variants from the beginning of 1842 to the end of 1846, but without success.
    13 The bishops’ transcripts for Hartington (B/V/7/2/334, 1800-1868) and Earl Sterndale (B/V/7/2/247, 1800-1858) from 1840 to 1850, were searched but, without success.
    14 Variants of ‘Phoebe’, ‘Ellen’ and ‘Fernihough’ were searched for in the pre-1900 parish registers available on Find My
    Past. But no likely baptism for her was found.


    Phoebe may not have been baptised and that her birth may not have been registered (as you know there were no penalties for non-registration until 1874).
    However Pheobe`s name could link her with Jane Fernighough as Jane`s mother is called Phoebe and is there a link with the Lomas family as Phoebe`s middle name is Ellen the same as Mrs Lomas first name.

    Hope you can help

  • #2
    Have you checked this one out?

    FERNIHOUGH, PHEBE mmn BARNETT
    GRO Reference: 1842 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 17 Page 91
    Kat

    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

    Comment


    • #3
      Having looked through the Roots threads I can't see that you have checked this out. If she lived in Leek then NUL is within 15 miles away so a possibility and the right time frame.
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

      Comment


      • #4
        Record Transcription:
        England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975


        First name(s) Phebe
        Last name Ferniough
        Gender Female
        Birth year -
        Birth place -
        Baptism year 1842
        Baptism date 05 Jun 1842
        Place Audley
        County Staffordshire
        Country England
        Father's first name(s) John
        Father's last name Ferniough
        Mother's first name(s) Sarah
        Mother's last name -
        Kat

        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Katarzyna

          Thanks for that, but it can`t be mine as this one is legitimate, and I presume can be found with her parents for the next census.

          Comment


          • #6
            It is a most likely assumption that she was illegitimate because she doesn't name her father on the marriage certificate but don't rule out family break up or even that her father was dead and she assumed he wasn't therefore supposed to be on. I have seen certificates with no father when I am certain the person was born legitimate.
            Anne

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes that could be the case, but sadly I am not on Ancestry or anything, and have to rely on the free stuff, I can`t find this family in 1851 on freecen.

              Comment


              • #8
                The image of the register entry for the second marriage can be viewed here, for free.
                Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                The box for the name of Phoebe's father is left blank.

                ETA you may have to sign up to view, but it is free.

                Jay
                Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 01-12-18, 18:03.
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for that Janet, if she didn`t offer up the name of her father on her second marriage, I think it adds to the assumption that she was illegitimate.
                  Its a while since I used Family Search, I will have to get back on it.
                  I was hoping that she actually knew who her mother was and possibly turned up as a witness to her mothers children`s weddings or something like that, but I have haven`t found any links for her called Ferniough or Bennet in this sort of situation.
                  The reason why I say that is, for her first wedding to Isaac Wain one of the witness is the son of Issac`s mother after she had married. (Isaac Wain was illegitimate) and it was through this boy that I discovered who Isaacs mother was.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How about this one from the GRO index

                    FERNIHOUGH, PHOEBE ANN MMN: FERNIHOUGH
                    GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in CHEADLE Volume 17 Page 46

                    It would not be normal to put the mother's maiden name if the child was illegitimate but this is worth checking.

                    Cheadle is in Staffordshire near Stoke on Trent.

                    Margaret

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Margaret

                      The trouble is at the moment I don`t have Ancestry and I am relying on Free Cent & Free Reg which I have just consulted them and couldn`t find this person, (though I have come across this person before using Free Reg,possibly its the way I used both today (I used soundex) or they are just playing up today.))
                      Yes she could be a candidate, however Phoebe refers to herself as Pheobe Ellen for both of her marriages and in the 1851, & 1911 Census(not sure with the others) also.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pomme de Terre View Post
                        Thanks Margaret

                        The trouble is at the moment I don`t have Ancestry and I am relying on Free Cent & Free Reg which I have just consulted them and couldn`t find this person, (though I have come across this person before using Free Reg,possibly its the way I used both today (I used soundex) or they are just playing up today.))
                        Yes she could be a candidate, however Phoebe refers to herself as Pheobe Ellen for both of her marriages and in the 1851, & 1911 Census(not sure with the others) also.
                        People often add names that don't appear on birth registrations and vis versa so I wouldn't rule this out.

                        Can you search using the reference numbers?

                        In any event you could just order the pdf entry from GRO and see what it says.

                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Margaret

                          Yes I can believe that, and also you can get transcription errors.
                          I am not used to using the GRO so I am unsure whether I can search using the reference numbers, I will try at the weekend when I am not at work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pomme de Terre View Post
                            Hi Margaret

                            Yes I can believe that, and also you can get transcription errors.
                            I am not used to using the GRO so I am unsure whether I can search using the reference numbers, I will try at the weekend when I am not at work.
                            You can search with reference numbers or with a name on GRO what I was suggesting was you looking on the sites you use with reference numbers.

                            What I found is exactly what is in the GRO index so all you need to do is locate it on their site and you can click next to the entry to order the pdf version for £6.
                            Margaret

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some one from another source has provided me with the following information, which may in the future provide a link with Pheobe and the Fernihoughs (in a documented way) and in the process discounts the 1842 Phoebe Ann.
                              I thought I would post it in case it prompted a Eureka moment with someone.
                              Charles Fernihough married in 1808 at Leek to Phoebe Bentley. They had children Matthew 1811, Charles 1813, Sarah 1815 and Phoebe 1818 (transcribed as Febe Forenough) baptised at Onecote followed by Maria 1820, Philip 1823, Jane 1825 and Mary 1828 baptised at Waterfall. Mother, Phoebe died in 1840 age 51 years. In 1841 Charles is living in Foxt with Phoebe, Maria, Jane and Mary. There is also a James age 4 who is possibly a grandson. Sons, Charles, married to Louisa and Philip, married to Maria Anne. Charles has a daughter Phoebe born circa 1847 and Philip also has a Phoebe Ann born circa 1842.
                              In 1851 James age 15 is living with Philip described as nephew. Neither a baptism nor registration can be found for him (he was born prior to registration). One of Charles and Phoebe's daughters could be the mother of both James and Phoebe. Mary would be too young, Jane could be Phoebes mother
                              but a bit young for James. Sarah,
                              Maria and Phoebe are ideal for both. Phoebe married John Corbishley and had a daughter Phoebe in 1852 so is it likely that she would call two, Phoebe. Jane, married in 1853 had three sons. Maria is buried with Charles and the headstone gives her surname as Richardson. An Ancestry family tree has her marrying a James Richardson in 1842 but there was no marriage then. There is a marriage to a Richard Richardson in 1850 Macclesfield that might be her. I have not been able to find them after this to know what children they had.
                              It would seem probable that Phoebe belongs to this family with so many Phoebes in it but with no documentary evidence it is going to remain difficult to prove. No further link was found to the Lomas family, my source thinks she was probably placed with this family as a home help.
                              In 1911 she declares that she has been married 37 years, had nine children with five living. I had seven of them from census records, my source found an eighth Hannah Bennett 1884-1886 age 1 but could not find a ninth.

                              Comment

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