baker/linden/gray

[Katarzyna]

We all do that Chrissie I'm off now to cook mine. That must be "our" marriage then I think.
Just worrying a bit about the Guy/Gray/Grey change.


Name Thomas Baker
Gender Male
Christening Date 15 Jul 1798
Christening Date (Original) 15 JUL 1798
Christening Place DALLINGTON,SUSSEX,ENGLAND
Father's Name Saml. Baker
Mother's Name Mary

Death:
BAKER, THOMAS 63
GRO Reference: 1861 Jun Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 160

[gloryer]

was trying to get this up earlier but it disappeared on my computer. to me that looks more like gray than guy

[Anne in Carlisle]

It does look more like Grey but you can that it (perhaps surprisingly) could be misread for Guy. I think the other surname is definitely Sinden.
Anne

[Katarzyna]

There appears to be only one burial for a Thomas Sinden between birth of daughter Rebecca 1831 and before 1841 census when Hannah is with Thomas Baker
Sussex Burials
First name Thomas
Last name Sinden
Age 43
Birth year 1789
Death year 1832
Burial year 1832
Burial date 31 Aug 1832
Dedication All Saints
Place Hastings

Baptism https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
Name: Hannah Guy
Birth Date: 23 Jan
Gender: Female
Event Type: Baptism
Father: Benjmin Guy
Mother: Eliza Guy
Baptism Date: 23 Feb 1809
Baptism Place: Sussex, England
Denomination: Independent
Piece Title: Piece 3107: Heathfield Chapel (Independent), 1775-1837
On image living Warbeldon- Warbleton??

[gloryer]

This looks Jane's birth but I can't get it to come up on GRO to check the mmn -
Births Mar 1838 - Sinden Jane Elizabeth Hastings 7 330

That would mean she was born 6 years after the death of Thomas Sinden
I am wondering if Hannah Guy/Gray didnt marry Thomas Baker but just lived together and Jane may have been borne to Thomas Baker but Hannah carried on using her married name then when they moved to Kent just used the name Baker........

[gloryer]

https://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/image/namespaces/1093/media/6e9f99dd-325d-4f89-ab5f-eba9d9067bf3.jpg?client=Trees&imageQuality=hq&maxWidth=1898.4375&maxHeight=870.3125

I have found another relation to Hannah Guy/Grey but this one looks more like Guy but could still be debated as Grey. They have her in their tree as Guy.....

[gloryer]

there is a death of a Hannah Sinden 1855 battle hasting sussex.......

[gloryer]

interestingly Thomas Sinden and Hannah Guy appear in a few trees on ancestry but they all have her death as 1855. Wonder if they all copied each other and not bothered checking with a certificate...... I hope they got it wrong...lol

[gloryer]

https://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/i...eight=870.3125

I have found another relation to Hannah Guy/Grey but this one looks more like Guy but could still be debated as Grey. They have her in their tree as Guy.....

and I have a dna match of 5th to 8th cousin with this connection but he also has her death 1855.............

[gloryer]

Just been looking at 1851 for Battle sussex and there is a Hannah Sinden daughter of Thomas Sinden and Elizabeth and I reckon this is the one that died 1855 as there doesnt appear to be a marriage for her. Also next door but 1 is another Thomas Sinden so quite a commmon name in that area!!
My Hannah is still alive on 1881 census with her son frederick. I think she died 1893 but cant fnd her on 1891 census so uncertain as Baker is quite a common name

[gloryer]

yes the parish records show her burial as 1893 Darenth so dont know where she is on 1891 census

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Re Guy/Grey/Gray - just a thought: the birth was registered by the father and maybe he wasn't too familiar with the correct pronunciation of the maiden name of the mother?? If you say "Guy" it could sound like Gry, interpreted as Grey in a southern accent!

Jay

[Chrissie Smiff]

https://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/i...eight=870.3125

I have found another relation to Hannah Guy/Grey but this one looks more like Guy but could still be debated as Grey. They have her in their tree as Guy.....

The Thomas Guy (father) in that one appears to be this one - GUY, THOMAS mmn HOWELL - GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in LEWES CHAILEY WESTFIRLE AND NEWHAVEN Volume 07 Page 349

He seems to have married a much younger lady -
Marriages Mar 1905 - GUY Thomas - Uckfield 2b 168 - Neve Jane Ann - Uckfield 2b 168

Here they are in 1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true

In 1901 with first wife - https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=2352

He dies in 1912 - Thomas Guy - Death Date 21 Mar 1912 - Death Place Lewes, England - Probate Date 26 Apr 1912

Looks like him in 1841 - https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=7619

[Katarzyna]

BAKER, HANNAH age 89
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 296

Think this may be her - same address as in 1881 census - Green Street Green, Darenth, Kent, England:

1891 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

Harriett Baker Head Widow Female 88 1803 - Sussex, England (deaf)

[Katarzyna]

Re Guy/Grey/Gray - just a thought: the birth was registered by the father and maybe he wasn't too familiar with the correct pronunciation of the maiden name of the mother?? If you say "Guy" it could sound like Gry, interpreted as Grey in a southern accent!

Jay

1891 shows Hannah to be deaf. It could be she was hard of hearing or completely deaf all her life. This would maybe make a difference in how she articulated the name??? It explains possibly why the enumerator wrote Harriet instead of Hannah on the 1891 census.

Edit: I too believe it's possible she never married. Perhaps when she became pregnant with Jane they all ran off to Kent to get away from their families.

[gloryer]

interestingly Thomas Sinden and Hannah Guy appear in a few trees on ancestry but they all have her death as 1855. Wonder if they all copied each other and not bothered checking with a certificate...... I hope they got it wrong...lol

this theory has be blown out of the water as the age of Hannah Sinden that died 1855 Battle was aged 50 so similar age to mine....

[gloryer]

if they didnt marry would they have had the banns possibly? Just going for a browse of the parish records under marriages but did wonder if they may have got as far as the banns then said sod it!!! LOL

[Olde Crone Holden]

Fwiw - if you write GUY in flowing curly copperplate it looks very like Grey. And Grey sounds the same as Gray of course, so I would have no problem with Guy/Grey/Gray all being the same.

OC

[gloryer]

yes I agree with that. Not sure where to go to next with this one. Had a look for Jane Baker baptism but couldnt find it and cant find a marriage for Thomas Baker and Hannah Guyso a bit stuck at the moment....

[Katarzyna]

It could be that they never married and ran away to Kent possibly with baby Jane on her way. Maybe they never registered or baptised the baby because of the situation they were in. Sometimes we just have to let these things go. If you're like me tho' you won't. LOL. Like a dog with a bone with my Adams's! I do think the Guy/Gray thing is either because of her deafness or the accents of the time or an incompetent registrar.