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  • #21
    so after 7 years the death cert would be issued ?

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    • #22
      The coroner could issue a death certificate if he was satisfied that death had occurred. I think a coroner can also issue an interim death cert to allow for the widow etc to get insurance or other benefits where it seems likely someone has died. However a death is not registered until death is confirmed, either by finding a body or by direction from the coroner. I am not sure how that would appear in the indexes, year of death OR year of registration of death?

      OC

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      • #23
        thanks OC I was wondering ,as have been looking for a death cert record for that Edgar Courtney, but that info I found was all.

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        • #24
          According to the image Val posted col 14 asks for the Registrar General to whom the death was reported and this is blank in the case of Edgar.
          I would surmise that a death cert would not be available.

          However the GRO will do a search for events registered in England and Wales or for overseas events which were registered with the British authorities
          "If I don’t have the index reference number what will happen?
          If you are unable to trace or do not have the index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st July 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months) provided you have sufficient information to identify the entry. A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You should supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date, enter 01/01/YYYY and we will search the specified year and one year either side. If you do not provide an index reference number, your application will take up to 15 working days to process. "


          This is his service record:

          Courtney SR image.JPG
          Kat

          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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          • #25
            When I was researching PR for several East Yorkshire coastal villages (1800's)there were some burials of "unknown man, washed up on the beach." Whilst there may have been reports in the newspapers of the event, and no doubt the coroner was advised of the discoveries, there wouldn't have been any death registrations or certificates - what name would have been used? Sadly it was not uncommon, especially following storms or bad weather.

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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            • #26
              Actually deaths of Unknown Males and Females were/are registered. For very sad reading search Freebmd for deaths, surname UNKNOWN . I found over 125 such registrations in Q1 1890 alone.
              Judith passed away in October 2018

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              • #27
                I got quite upset reading a parish register for the Isle of Man, page after page of "human leg, known unto god" etc. I was as much upset by the dogged determination of the Vicar to record every body part found, or do I mean moved by his utter sincerity.

                OC

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                  If no body was recovered then I THINK it is 7 years before someone can be presumed dead, so a death cert might have been issued years later.

                  Otherwise deaths at sea are listed on the GRO overseas registers. I don't know how you access those but I'm sure someone else does!

                  OC
                  If only the Family Records Centre still existed in London, one could search them there. I still miss going there.
                  Joy

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                  • #29
                    A report in the Diss Express of 18/12/1914 stated that a message received by the Liverpool Salvage Associates stated that the ss Vedra 'has been completely destroyed (by fire)from the load line upwards. The entire vessel was in a white heat'. This implies that apart from a single survivor from the crew no remains of the other 36 were recovered.
                    This is the case sadly in many cases of shipboard fires involving highly flammable oil etc.
                    A cousin of mine was similarly lost when his ship, the Royston Grange, was on passage from Buenos Aires to London in the River Plate around 35 miles from Montevideo when the ship was involved in a collision in the early hours of 11/5/1972 with a Chinese tanker carrying 20,000 tons of oil, which exploded immediately. The conflagration was so intense that all 61 crew, 12 passengers and 1 River Pilot died on the Royston Grange and their remains, mostly ashes and charred bones, were buried in six urns at the British Cemetery, Montevideo in the presence of 130 relatives flown there by the ship's owners.
                    I have never found a death certificate for my cousin and assumed none were issued as no identifiable remains existed although there must have been some documentation as Administration of his Estate was granted within 2 months of this tragic event.
                    My cousin was just 23yrs old and also born at Gosport.

                    Returning to to the Vedra incident, there is also an In Memoriam message in the Portsmouth Evening News of 8/12/1916 under Courtney, 'In loving memory of my dear brother Edgar who lost his life on the ss Vedra, December 8th 1914. At rest. Mother and May'

                    merleyone

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                    • #30
                      How terribly sad, Merleyone.

                      PunchsMum I have downloaded a 5 page pdf report on the wreck of the Vedra by the Hydrographic Service and posted on the Wreck Site. pm me your email if you want me to send it to you or view it here if you join the site:
                      Last edited by Katarzyna; 04-10-18, 14:31.
                      Kat

                      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                      • #31
                        You probably have this already - the report from the Jersey Evening Post re Vedra.

                        In the Channel Islands, much of this work is carried on by the Channel Islands Great War Study Group. Recently, we have been informed by CIGWSG […]
                        Kat

                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                        • #32
                          fascinating article.

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                          • #33
                            Merleyone......many thanks for bringing this In Memoriam notice to my attention! No. I was not aware of this at all! I know my Late father had a brother named after him though! Will try and find this Evening News notice myself.

                            Punchsmum

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                            • #34
                              Katarzyna, Yes, I did find that article in the Jersey newspaper.....purely by chance though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though. A sad read.

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                              • #35
                                Will PM you my e mail address, Katarzyna. Would very much like to see the report on the Vedra from that site,

                                Have only just seen your post!!

                                Thanks Punchsmym

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                                • #36
                                  Katarzyna,

                                  Thank you sooo much for sending the report on Vedra!! Received ok! Will print it off tomorrow and read it then! Looks really interesting! Wasn’t expecting such a fast response!!

                                  Lesley.( Punchsmum)
                                  Last edited by Punchs mum; 05-10-18, 21:20.

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                                  • #37
                                    Have sent the article Lesley. It is interesting but very sad reading I'm afraid.
                                    Kat

                                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                                    • #38
                                      Have received it ok, see post above yours. Thank you again!

                                      Lesley
                                      Last edited by Punchs mum; 05-10-18, 21:36.

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