John Henry Humphreys Born Around 1860

[Chloecee]

Hello I'm new to this site but hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction in finding the correct birth record for my 2 times Great Grandfather John Henry Humphreys.

I can find no definite birth record for him nor any trace that he married my 2 times Great Grandmother Emma Elizabeth Green, although she took his last name and is recorded as Emma Humphreys on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census. On all 3 censuses they are living in the Penge/Beckenham area of Bromley-Kent/South London and had 5 children:

John Henry Junior Born 1889
Walter Leonard or Leonard Walter Born 1899
Arthur Born 1902
Albert Born 1904
Ethel May Born 1908

I believe all 5 children were born in Beckenham/Bromley but can only find a Baptism record for the first child.


As far as I can see Emma herself came from Penge originally. As this is only up the road from me I am familiar with the area so that makes it a bit easier.

But part of my confusion comes from where John Henry comes from and his actual year of birth. The earliest I can find any record of him is the 1891 Census which lists him as:

John H 'Humphries' Age 29 working as a General Labourer and originally being from Wolverhampton, Staffordshire and living on Arthur Road Beckenham with Emma and their first child.

1901 Census:
John Henry Humphreys is still listed as living on Arthur Road with Emma and they now have 2 kids. But he is listed as being 43 and being born in Ludlow, Salop.
1911 Census:
John Humphreys and his family have moved up the road to Arpley/Beckenham Road Penge. He's now listed as 53 and again being born in Ludlow, Shropshire.

I have a death record for John Henry and have his death certificate showing he died in 1912 at Bromley Workhouse Infirmary.

I've tried using GRO to track down the correct John Henry but I'm not sure any of them are correct. I also have tried several sites and can find no record at all of John Henry and Emma actually marrying. If I could find this I could order their marriage certificate and might find out a little bit more about John Henry!


Sorry for the long post but if anyone can maybe point me in a new direction I would be very appreciative.

Thank you,

Chloé

[Elizabeth Herts]

Chloé, I suspect you have seen and investigated this one:

?HUMPHREYS, JOHN HENRY PICKEN GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in WELLINGTON (SALOP) Volume 06A Page 796

[Guest]

how old does it say he was when he died?

[Guest]

dont worry found his death

[Elaine]

There's a baptism for the second child...as Walter Leonard

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTT2-YLS

[Chloecee]

Chloé, I suspect you have seen and investigated this one:

?HUMPHREYS, JOHN HENRY PICKEN GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in WELLINGTON (SALOP) Volume 06A Page 796

Thanks Elizabeth, yes I have seen this. There are several GRO records I've looked into that may be my John Henry.

I've played around with the various records on Ancestry but not getting anywhere as he could be born anywhere between 1857 and 1862 and one census suggests Wolverhampton, the others suggest Ludlow.

If I could just find a marriage record I could confirm if any of the GRO records are indeed my John Henry.

Thanks again

[Chloecee]

Sorry Val,

Yes Death Certificate states age as 53 when he died in July 1912.

[Chloecee]

Hi Elaine,

Yes sorry I think I had this already as Walter is my Great Granddad.

I don't think I could find much for the 3 younger kids. And still no sign that Emma & John Henry got married which is slowly driving me crazy!

Thank you

[Guest]

I could not find a marriage for them either, did look under just her forenames, as she may have been married before, but nothing, will try again later.

[Chloecee]

I could not find a marriage for them either, did look under just her forenames, as she may have been married before, but nothing, will try again later.

Thank you! I'm out of ideas on how to find them now

[vera2013]

I wonder if they ever married. Emma Elizabeth was only 17 when she had John H b 1889 Bromley reg. I note in 1911 census no marriage date given although no of children completed.

I have been looking at 2 possibles as John H
appears uncertain about dob and pob.

One Chrissie suggested b Wellington, Salop 1862 mmn Picken. Mother is Margaret, a widow in 1871 and then disappears and

John H b Madeley, Staffs 1858 no mothers maiden name. Possibly the one boarded out in 1861 and 1871 with elderly Pauper in Dawley, Staffs.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The 10 year gap between the first two children is "interesting," with the remaining children appearing at more regular intervals. Sometimes such apparent trivia can turn out to be of significance.

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

As far as I can see Emma herself came from Penge originally.

Is there any particular reason why you think that?

She says she was born in Beckenham in the 1901 census and Elmers End in the 1911.

This is presumably her birth:

Births Mar 1872
GREEN Emma Elizabeth / Bromley / 2a 354

[Chloecee]

I wonder if they ever married. Emma Elizabeth was only 17 when she had John H b 1889 Bromley reg. I note in 1911 census no marriage date given although no of children completed.

I have been looking at 2 possibles as John H
appears uncertain about dob and pob.

One Chrissie suggested b Wellington, Salop 1862 mmn Picken. Mother is Margaret, a widow in 1871 and then disappears and

John H b Madeley, Staffs 1858 no mothers maiden name. Possibly the one boarded out in 1861 and 1871 with elderly Pauper in Dawley, Staffs.

Vera

Thanks for this I have looked at both of these before and they may well be correct but I'm not 100% convinced. I'll have another look at them though

[Chloecee]

Yes I was thinking this seems a little bit unusual. Definitely something I should maybe look into further. This is proving quite tricky. Thanks for giving me something to ponder

[Chloecee]

Also I forgot to say its looking very unlikely they actually didn't get married now, although I don't know how common that would have been? It's weird as they state they are married and Emma took John's name. Maybe there is a reason they didn't get married

[Chloecee]

Hello yes, that is the correct birth record. Penge/Beckenham both come under the London Borough of Bromley, I think I found Emma's Mum living on the same road as them and I live close to this area so I am very familiar with it.

But John Henry is sadly not proving as straight forward for me.

[Elaine]

I think there was another son

William Humphries mmn Green
Q2 1891 Bromley 2a/444

[Chloecee]

Apologies if the above reply's aren't very clear it wont allow me to edit them and insert reply with quote

Chloé x

[Chloecee]

I think there was another son

William Humphries mmn Green
Q2 1891 Bromley 2a/444

Oh wow!! Thanks for this I never realised this. I've just found the Death record for William. This may explain things. I suppose I better check that there were no other children I'm not aware of.