John Henry Humphreys Born Around 1860

[vera2013]

Finally found a remarriage for Margaret Humphries nee Picken 1871 census.
First m as Mary Ann Picken to Edward Humphries in 1860.
Second m to Charles Parker 1872 at Shifnal, Shropshire.
With Charles and children in 1881 including John Parker b 1864 Wombridge.EDIT Think this is son of Charles.

Vera

[Chloecee]

Have you looked for earlier John Henry Humphreys (& variants) marriages? The most common reason for there being no marriage is that one of the couple already had a living spouse.

Nothing showing up for any much later Humphrey/Green marriage
I had a couple who cohabited for almost 40 yrs before getting married. By that time the groom was approaching retirement & OAP entitlement - he would have been awarded a larger weekly sum if married, and also if he died first, his widow would have then had an award. I strongly suspect that future finances was the reason for the marriage - neither party had had a previous marriage, so no reason why they couldn't have married decades earlier. That bride's mother had had a truly awful marriage and it seems none of her daughters wanted to follow suit and I don't blame them.

Jay

I was wondering if it was because of something like this especially considering he was over 10 years older than Emma and she was only 17 when they had their first child. But I can't seem to find any previous marriage records for him that make sense

[Chloecee]

I hope you don't mind if I put these inks to the census here. It helps me not to have to keep looking for them.

1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true

1901 - https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=try&h=5189662

1891 - https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...try&h=12287165

Thanks for this

[Chloecee]

I have looked at a couple of possibles taken from GRO index. John H Humphries b 1858 Madeley Reg no mothers maiden name and John H b 1862 Wellington Reg mmn Picken

The Madeley reg could be a John H born to Mary Ann Humphries spinster abode ? Fingers. A John H was boarded out from age of 3 with Done/Dony/Dinah/Diannah Price at Kellys Buildings, Fingers Lane. He is with Dinah in 1871. She dies 1875. Cant see John H in 1881. There is a John H living Derbyshire b Fingers, Shropshire m to Ann England. He is with Ann in 1891 and widowed in 1911.

There is a John Humpries in 1871 b Wombridge with mother Margaret (Picken) Widow and sibs Joseph and Mary Ann. Cant see them after this time or re-marriage for mother Margaret

I have looked briefly for John H's previously married but so far with their wives in 1891. John H either had a difficult childhood or moved around a lot as he cannot seem to remember pob or dob or he may chose not to.

Vera

Thanks for this! Yes I've looked at the Picken option a couple of times but it never really led to anything. I think you may well be right about his childhood. The other side of my family are all Romany Gypsy and I have still managed to trace them all the way back to 1780 but John H is proving far more difficult!

[Chloecee]

wouldn't be surprised if john was born illegitimately, and took a step father's name growing up. perhaps he married under that name? my 3rd great grandfather wa sborn a poole, but took his step father's name of ford, and was that is the name he married under and kept his adult life.

Yes I am wondering if it could be something like this. Thanks for giving me something to consider I think I have seen that happen on some of my other family's records.

[Chloecee]

Finally found a remarriage for Margaret Humphries nee Picken 1871 census.
First m as Mary Ann Picken to Edward Humphries in 1860.
Second m to Charles Parker 1872 at Shifnal, Shropshire.
With Charles and children in 1881 including John Parker b 1864 Wombridge.EDIT Think this is son of Charles.

Vera

Thanks for this Vera, very helpful. At least that helps cross that possibility off of my list.

[Chloecee]

I think a clue to finding my elusive John Henry is working out why he ended up in Penge in South London from the Midlands. It's quite a specific area to end up in and there are many other parts of London he could have stopped in beforehand that may have offered him better employment opportunities (he was a Labourer and listed as a Painter on his death certificate). As Emma was only 17 I am not sure where he may have met her.

Perhaps he was in the military? I did previously find a military deserter list with a John Humphreys listed on it that stated that he deserted in Woolwich in 1879. That's not a million miles away.

Back to my digging I go, thanks for all your help I really appreciate it

Chloé

[Chloecee]

Ok ignore my last post about the military deserter record, the John Humphries that is attached to shows up in 1891 living with his family in Shropshire, whilst my John H was living in Beckenham/Penge with Emma.

Back to the drawing board!

[vera2013]

Thanks for this Vera, very helpful. At least that helps cross that possibility off of my list.

The John H Humphries b 1862 son of Mary Ann Parker (Margaret Humphries nee Picken 1871) is still on the loose
However, as there is a strong connection with mining in that area, I agree something different about your John H which had him turn up in Kent as a Gen Lab.

Vera

[Mary from Italy]

I think a clue to finding my elusive John Henry is working out why he ended up in Penge in South London from the Midlands.

Several members of one of my Yorkshire families moved to Penge for no apparent reason in around the 1860s, and I've always wondered why. Some of them eventually emigrated to the USA, but I have no idea if that's relevant. One of them married a Beckenham girl whose family emigrated to Australia, so maybe there was an organisation there advertising passages for would-be emigrants.

[vera2013]

Just putting this up as its a strange one. Any Clergy or Tea Planters in the family? As I couldnt find a JH Humpries b Ludlow, I have looked at any JH's b Ludlow 1860 +/-2.
There is a John Henry Kent b 1861 Ludlow into an affluent family who at 15 is indentured to a Liverpool Shipping Co for 4 yrs,
certified Mate in London 1880, marries 1881, 3 children, wife dies 1885, children with M/gparents 1891. The children, then move on to work in Banking.
Cant see John Henry on a ship after 1886 using Clip site. Did your JH change his name for some reason?? More questions than answers again.

Chloe do you have the history of John H b 1889?

Vera