Hi folks.
I'm new to the family tree research, and new to these forums. Just wanted to quickly say hi to everyone
Now, I have a problem. My 4th great-grandfather. My elusive 4th great-grandfather. I've spent all of my waking hours this week (that isn't even an exaggeration, this has taken over me) trying to find out all the information I could about him. I started the tree on Sunday, with some help with my grandmother (we're both interested in doing the tree and have been working together when she has time).
So we started off with Annie Campbell - my 2nd great-grandmother. She was married to Andrew Lourie Kerr. My gran is from the Campbell side, so we wanted to trace that line. Annie's mum and dad we found to be John Campbell and Annie Carson. John's mum and dad (after painstaking searching) we found to be John Campbell (I'll refer to him as Sr from hereon) and Elizabeth Radcliff/Lacey/Campbell (there were so many names, she nearly caused me to have a breakdown trying to find her).
This is where we get stuck. John Sr. I'm going to rattle off all the information I know about him here. I'll link a visual copy of the tree at the end of the post. So John Sr had two children with Elizabeth - William, and John Jr. William served as a Private in WW1 as part of the Seaforth Highlanders. In his Military Records it is clearly stated that his mother and father's Christian names are John and Elizabeth. He also lists John Jr. as his next of kin. This is what confirmed my thoughts that these were the right people. From all the Census' I found that have John Sr. and Elizabeth, John Sr. is stated as being born in Ireland.
And that's it. That's all the information I have on John Sr. He was born in Ireland and in the 1881-1901 Census' he lived in Kirkmichael with Elizabeth and their children. I've hit a massive brick wall. I don't know where to go from here. I can't find any birth records for him, or any death records for him (or Elizabeth for that matter). I can't even find a marriage record for them.
Below are all the documents I have that pertain to John Sr. I'll try and lay it out neatly, or as neatly as the forum allows me.
1901 Scotland Census -https://imgur.com/a/Gh44F3F
John is listed as living with Elizabeth and William (note Elizabeth is listed as Campbell). He was born abt. 1824, and is aged 77. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker of his own account, and lives in Kirkmichael.
1891 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/vpHmbmF (I didn't have enough credits to get the actual copy of the document, so I took the screenshot from FindMyPast)
John is listed as living with Elizabeth, John Jr, and William. John Sr. is listed as being married, and Elizabeth is listed as Lacey rather than Campbell and also as a Widow. He was born abt. 1824, and is aged 71. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker and lives in Kirkmichael.
1881 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/JXVQVIL
John is listed as living with Elizabeth, John Jr, William, and Elizabeth Jr (this is one of her 3 children with former husband James Lacey). John Sr. was born abt. 1824, and is aged 57. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker and lives in Kirkmichael.
Here's where the story became interesting to me. The 1871 Census. In 1871 Elizabeth is recorded at the Mill Quarter Hospital in Dalmellington. She is with the nurse, her three children, and Margaret Logan, who is from Kirkmichael. Elizabeth Jr. was born in Dalmellington in 1869, and the '71 Census lists her as being 2 y.o. This all ties together nicely. Now, back to John.
1871 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/BvG5W01
John is listed as a lodger. He's born abt. 1818, and is age 53. He was born in Ireland, and is also a shoemaker. I'm convinced it's the same man.
So at some point between 1871 and 1881, John Campbell has met Elizabeth Lacey (m.s. Radcliffe). They've then moved to Kirkmichael and had John and William Campbell (both illegitimate births, so they weren't married). A reddit user on r/Genealogy pointed out to me that back then when a child was born out of wedlock, the mother lists herself as a a house keeper, to basically avoid a scandal because of an illegitimate child. Whether there's truth to this, I'm not sure, but she's listed as a house keeper in the Census'.
William Campbell's birth register - https://imgur.com/a/fr6uUAO
As you can see on the register, William was an illegitimate birth. His father is John Campbell whose profession is listed as a shoemaker. His mother is listed as Elizabeth Lacey (m.s. Radcliffe). They're from Kirkmichael.
William Campbell's marriage register - https://imgur.com/a/R4bLfB5
Marriage to Mary Lithgow. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and mother listed as Elizabeth Campbell (ms. Radcliffe).
John Campbell Jr's birth register - https://imgur.com/a/9eKWYPy
John was also an illegitimate birth. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and Elizabeth Lacey (ms. Radcliffe).
John Campbell Jr's marriage register - https://imgur.com/a/9eKWYPy
Marriage to Annie Austin Carson. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and Lizzie Campbell (ms. Radcliffe).
There's two more documents I found that may or may not relate to John. The first is the 1861 Scotland Census (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...861/0022793270). There's a John Campbell listed as a Boarder at a residence in Galston. Now, Galston is a while away from Dalmellington and Kirkmichael, but it's just outside of Kilmarnock, which is where John Jr and Annie Carson got married, so there's ties. Anyway, he's listed as age 40, being born in 1821. He's a coal miner and was born in Ireland. The dates are similar to the other Census' so it very well could be him. But the best piece of information from this Census is that it says Ireland, specifically from the county of Antrim.
This ties in with the other document I found. Military Discharge records from 1843 for John Campbell, who was born in 1825 in Belfast, Antrim, Ireland. Whether these two are connected, and whether they connect to John Sr I'm not sure. This is why I need help. The only concrete information I have about John Sr is his children, his occupancy with Elizabeth Radcliffe/Lacey/Campbell, and that he was born in Ireland. I have no death information. However, tomorrow I'm going to Kirkmichael with a friend to visit the cemetary. John Jr. and Annie Carson both died in Kirkmichael, so I'm hoping their graves are there, are intact, and will provide SOME information that I haven't found.
But in the meantime, if anybody can help provide any information, or if they can find out who the **** John Sr is, I'll love you forever!
Also, sorry if this has been long-winded and difficult to read, I'm just trying to throw out all the information I have in any chance of receiving help. :D
I'm new to the family tree research, and new to these forums. Just wanted to quickly say hi to everyone
Now, I have a problem. My 4th great-grandfather. My elusive 4th great-grandfather. I've spent all of my waking hours this week (that isn't even an exaggeration, this has taken over me) trying to find out all the information I could about him. I started the tree on Sunday, with some help with my grandmother (we're both interested in doing the tree and have been working together when she has time).
So we started off with Annie Campbell - my 2nd great-grandmother. She was married to Andrew Lourie Kerr. My gran is from the Campbell side, so we wanted to trace that line. Annie's mum and dad we found to be John Campbell and Annie Carson. John's mum and dad (after painstaking searching) we found to be John Campbell (I'll refer to him as Sr from hereon) and Elizabeth Radcliff/Lacey/Campbell (there were so many names, she nearly caused me to have a breakdown trying to find her).
This is where we get stuck. John Sr. I'm going to rattle off all the information I know about him here. I'll link a visual copy of the tree at the end of the post. So John Sr had two children with Elizabeth - William, and John Jr. William served as a Private in WW1 as part of the Seaforth Highlanders. In his Military Records it is clearly stated that his mother and father's Christian names are John and Elizabeth. He also lists John Jr. as his next of kin. This is what confirmed my thoughts that these were the right people. From all the Census' I found that have John Sr. and Elizabeth, John Sr. is stated as being born in Ireland.
And that's it. That's all the information I have on John Sr. He was born in Ireland and in the 1881-1901 Census' he lived in Kirkmichael with Elizabeth and their children. I've hit a massive brick wall. I don't know where to go from here. I can't find any birth records for him, or any death records for him (or Elizabeth for that matter). I can't even find a marriage record for them.
Below are all the documents I have that pertain to John Sr. I'll try and lay it out neatly, or as neatly as the forum allows me.
1901 Scotland Census -https://imgur.com/a/Gh44F3F
John is listed as living with Elizabeth and William (note Elizabeth is listed as Campbell). He was born abt. 1824, and is aged 77. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker of his own account, and lives in Kirkmichael.
1891 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/vpHmbmF (I didn't have enough credits to get the actual copy of the document, so I took the screenshot from FindMyPast)
John is listed as living with Elizabeth, John Jr, and William. John Sr. is listed as being married, and Elizabeth is listed as Lacey rather than Campbell and also as a Widow. He was born abt. 1824, and is aged 71. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker and lives in Kirkmichael.
1881 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/JXVQVIL
John is listed as living with Elizabeth, John Jr, William, and Elizabeth Jr (this is one of her 3 children with former husband James Lacey). John Sr. was born abt. 1824, and is aged 57. He was born in Ireland. He is a shoemaker and lives in Kirkmichael.
Here's where the story became interesting to me. The 1871 Census. In 1871 Elizabeth is recorded at the Mill Quarter Hospital in Dalmellington. She is with the nurse, her three children, and Margaret Logan, who is from Kirkmichael. Elizabeth Jr. was born in Dalmellington in 1869, and the '71 Census lists her as being 2 y.o. This all ties together nicely. Now, back to John.
1871 Scotland Census - https://imgur.com/a/BvG5W01
John is listed as a lodger. He's born abt. 1818, and is age 53. He was born in Ireland, and is also a shoemaker. I'm convinced it's the same man.
So at some point between 1871 and 1881, John Campbell has met Elizabeth Lacey (m.s. Radcliffe). They've then moved to Kirkmichael and had John and William Campbell (both illegitimate births, so they weren't married). A reddit user on r/Genealogy pointed out to me that back then when a child was born out of wedlock, the mother lists herself as a a house keeper, to basically avoid a scandal because of an illegitimate child. Whether there's truth to this, I'm not sure, but she's listed as a house keeper in the Census'.
William Campbell's birth register - https://imgur.com/a/fr6uUAO
As you can see on the register, William was an illegitimate birth. His father is John Campbell whose profession is listed as a shoemaker. His mother is listed as Elizabeth Lacey (m.s. Radcliffe). They're from Kirkmichael.
William Campbell's marriage register - https://imgur.com/a/R4bLfB5
Marriage to Mary Lithgow. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and mother listed as Elizabeth Campbell (ms. Radcliffe).
John Campbell Jr's birth register - https://imgur.com/a/9eKWYPy
John was also an illegitimate birth. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and Elizabeth Lacey (ms. Radcliffe).
John Campbell Jr's marriage register - https://imgur.com/a/9eKWYPy
Marriage to Annie Austin Carson. Father listed as John Campbell (shoemaker) and Lizzie Campbell (ms. Radcliffe).
There's two more documents I found that may or may not relate to John. The first is the 1861 Scotland Census (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...861/0022793270). There's a John Campbell listed as a Boarder at a residence in Galston. Now, Galston is a while away from Dalmellington and Kirkmichael, but it's just outside of Kilmarnock, which is where John Jr and Annie Carson got married, so there's ties. Anyway, he's listed as age 40, being born in 1821. He's a coal miner and was born in Ireland. The dates are similar to the other Census' so it very well could be him. But the best piece of information from this Census is that it says Ireland, specifically from the county of Antrim.
This ties in with the other document I found. Military Discharge records from 1843 for John Campbell, who was born in 1825 in Belfast, Antrim, Ireland. Whether these two are connected, and whether they connect to John Sr I'm not sure. This is why I need help. The only concrete information I have about John Sr is his children, his occupancy with Elizabeth Radcliffe/Lacey/Campbell, and that he was born in Ireland. I have no death information. However, tomorrow I'm going to Kirkmichael with a friend to visit the cemetary. John Jr. and Annie Carson both died in Kirkmichael, so I'm hoping their graves are there, are intact, and will provide SOME information that I haven't found.
But in the meantime, if anybody can help provide any information, or if they can find out who the **** John Sr is, I'll love you forever!
Also, sorry if this has been long-winded and difficult to read, I'm just trying to throw out all the information I have in any chance of receiving help. :D
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