I have seen a John and danile born to parents with the same name but they had moved from one parish to another so I was unsure of they were the same people.
Never is a VERY long time!
Irish research (especially of RC ancestors) is notoriously difficult - it took me 30 YEARS to unearth the names of my Irish gt-gt-grandparents. I finally found the burial in England of gt-gt-grandmother, which led to the registration of her death, and the death cert confirmed that she was a widow and named her late husband.
I hope your progress will be speedier than mine was!
Jay
JanetinYorkshire
Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree
This Irish Government supported, official web site, is dedicated to helping you in your search for records of family history for past generations.
Searching for Patrick Sullivan Mary Harrington Kilgarven...it's the names that got me looking as there are baptisms for a John, Dennis and Daniel...all originals here
This website contains images from the NLI’s collection of Catholic parish register microfilms. The registers contain records of baptisms and marriages from the majority of Catholic parishes in Ireland and Northern Ireland up to 1880.
Can't see an occupation yet and I'm not sure where Crigeen/Criggreen is to be honest despite looking but they are all recorded in the registers for Kilgarven
Elaine
Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills
Hi Elaine thanks for helping.
I recognise the name Harrington from searches I have conducted but then three names are relevant as John had a son called Dennis who dies young so maybe named after his brother.
Hi Elaine thanks for helping.
I recognise the name Harrington from searches I have conducted. Them three names you have stated seem relevant as John had a son called Dennis who died young so maybe john his son after his brother.
That looks good Elaine.
There is also a Patrick bap 1846 and a Julia 1840. None of them have occupations for the father though.
That first link only takes you to the Search boxes and I only get the 5 results on my search using your criteria.
I haven't checked out the nli.ie site yet - my eyes not too good tonight.
edit
Marriage of PATRICK SULLIVAN of KILGARVAN and MARY HARRINGTON of NR (not recorded?)
on 24 November 1836
Witness 1 JEREMIAH SULLIVAN
Witness 2 JOHN SULLIVAN
No parents or Occupations recorded
These names sound good, John and Jeremiah are used in the family in later generations maybe being named after great uncles as I would assume Jeremiah and John would be relations to Patrick and most likely brothers.
Thanks again you've gotten better suggestions than me and my grandad managed to come up with in years of looking haha.
Regards Lew.
Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - BANDON
Baptism of CATHE LYONS of N/R on 13 April 1842
Father THS LYONS
Mother MARY LEARY
Sponsor 1 PETER REEN
Sponsor 2 CATHE LYONS
Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - TRACTON ABBEY
Baptism of CATHN LYONS of N/R on 23 September 1843
Father THOMAS LYONS
Mother CATH AHERN
Sponsor 1 DANL QUIN
Sponsor 2 ELLEN SPILLANE
Area - KERRY (RC) - DINGLE
Baptism of CATHERINE LYNE of GREEN LANE on 29 December 1839
Father THOMAS LYNE
Mother CATHERINE DAY
Sponsor 1 PATRICK GRIFFIN
Sponsor 2 CATHERINE MCDONNELL
can only see one marriage for those above:
Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - BANDON
Marriage of THS LYONS of N/R and MARY LEARY of N/R on 5 November 1831
Witness 1 JERH FEHILY
Witness 3 ELIZA QUINN
I know there's no easy answer but how would you pinpoint one of these baptisms? I assume the Lyons will be easier to find as there isn't alot of Thomas Lyons around from what I have seen.
Area - KERRY (RC) - KILGARVAN
Baptism of MARY MURNANE of ARDS on 1 May 1837 (Niece of Patrick perhaps)
Father DANIEL MURNANE
Mother JULIA SULLIVAN (Patrick's sister maybe)
Sponsor 1 PATRICK SULLIVAN
Sponsor 2 MARY HARRINGTON
I suspect they arrived in Wales during or just after the Irish Great Famine of 1845-50.
Censuses of 1821, 1831, 1841, and 1851 which would have helped you were destroyed in fire at PRO in 1922
Passenger lists were unavailable at the time because Ireland was considered to be part of Britain until 1922.
The main route patterns for Irish immigration to Britain were:
Emigrants from Ulster settled in Scotland
Emigrants from Connacht and the central strip of Ireland travelled via Dublin to Liverpool
Emigrants from Munster and other southerly or western areas of Ireland sailed to South Wales, London or the English south coast.
This last group mainly travelled via returning coal ships to South Wales basically packed in as ballast and were in quite dire straits on arrival - if they made it. Horrific when we think back on that now. Many settled in the Merthyr area.
If only your descendants had intimated an area they may have migrated from you might have had a chance to pinpoint the baptisms.
Have you followed Daniel through on Welsh Censuses? Just wondered if he may have indicated a more specific place of birth?
Proving that the Sullivans Elaine found are definitely yours is a big leap of faith but with naming patterns it looks feasible.
It's a shame they never thought about us and made it easier haha. I do see the names cropping up so they may be the correct ones. I have looked at daniel and he still puts Ireland.
As for the Lyons it should be easier to find them because there aren't many Thomas Lyons around from what ive seen.
1837-1874
"There was no penalty for not registering a birth or death, so records from this time are incomplete, possibly a third of the population is missing from these early records."
(taken from http://www.owenfamilyhistory.net/civilreg.html)
This was my problem. I think you need to consider any available RC church & civic burial records. I presume that whenever possible, RC burials would have been in a non-denominational cemetery, rather than a C of E churchyard. I found Irish gt-gt grandmother purely by chance, whilst perusing the burial register of the RC church of the town where she was recorded in 1871 census, living with her son. Unfortunately, as yet, I have not been able to track down RC burials for the place where the family lived before 1861. I know the name of gt-gt grandfather, but until I can eliminate the possibility of either an English burial record or death registration, I know not whether he died in England or in Ireland.
Perhaps a bit of background research on RC parishes and churches in the Rhonnda area would gives clues as to where you could look?
Jay
JanetinYorkshire
Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree
Seems worth a shot, however i only have the family after1861 and Patrick was dead according to the marriage certifacte by 1860. So if he is not registered as buried in the church John got married in how then would you go about searching the burial records?
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