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Help!!! Cordwainer mystery?

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  • #21
    I have seen a John and danile born to parents with the same name but they had moved from one parish to another so I was unsure of they were the same people.

    It seems I'll never find Patrick 🤕😂.

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    • #22
      It seems I'll never find Patrick ����.

      Never is a VERY long time!
      Irish research (especially of RC ancestors) is notoriously difficult - it took me 30 YEARS to unearth the names of my Irish gt-gt-grandparents. I finally found the burial in England of gt-gt-grandmother, which led to the registration of her death, and the death cert confirmed that she was a widow and named her late husband.
      I hope your progress will be speedier than mine was!

      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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      • #23
        Have been looking at this family, just searching but would love some help

        There are 9 records but it's the first 8 I was looking at, at

        This Irish Government supported, official web site, is dedicated to helping you in your search for records of family history for past generations.


        Searching for Patrick Sullivan Mary Harrington Kilgarven...it's the names that got me looking as there are baptisms for a John, Dennis and Daniel...all originals here

        This website contains images from the NLI’s collection of Catholic parish register microfilms. The registers contain records of baptisms and marriages from the majority of Catholic parishes in Ireland and Northern Ireland up to 1880.


        Can't see an occupation yet and I'm not sure where Crigeen/Criggreen is to be honest despite looking but they are all recorded in the registers for Kilgarven
        Elaine

        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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        • #24
          Hi Elaine thanks for helping.
          I recognise the name Harrington from searches I have conducted but then three names are relevant as John had a son called Dennis who dies young so maybe named after his brother.

          Regards Lew.

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          • #25
            Hi Elaine thanks for helping.
            I recognise the name Harrington from searches I have conducted. Them three names you have stated seem relevant as John had a son called Dennis who died young so maybe john his son after his brother.

            Regards Lew.

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            • #26
              That looks good Elaine.
              There is also a Patrick bap 1846 and a Julia 1840. None of them have occupations for the father though.
              That first link only takes you to the Search boxes and I only get the 5 results on my search using your criteria.
              I haven't checked out the nli.ie site yet - my eyes not too good tonight.

              edit
              Marriage of PATRICK SULLIVAN of KILGARVAN and MARY HARRINGTON of NR (not recorded?)
              on 24 November 1836
              Witness 1 JEREMIAH SULLIVAN
              Witness 2 JOHN SULLIVAN
              No parents or Occupations recorded
              Last edited by Katarzyna; 10-06-18, 23:11.
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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              • #27
                These names sound good, John and Jeremiah are used in the family in later generations maybe being named after great uncles as I would assume Jeremiah and John would be relations to Patrick and most likely brothers.

                Thanks again you've gotten better suggestions than me and my grandad managed to come up with in years of looking haha.
                Regards Lew.

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                • #28
                  Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - BANDON
                  Baptism of CATHE LYONS of N/R on 13 April 1842
                  Father THS LYONS
                  Mother MARY LEARY
                  Sponsor 1 PETER REEN
                  Sponsor 2 CATHE LYONS

                  Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - TRACTON ABBEY
                  Baptism of CATHN LYONS of N/R on 23 September 1843
                  Father THOMAS LYONS
                  Mother CATH AHERN
                  Sponsor 1 DANL QUIN
                  Sponsor 2 ELLEN SPILLANE

                  Area - KERRY (RC) - DINGLE
                  Baptism of CATHERINE LYNE of GREEN LANE on 29 December 1839
                  Father THOMAS LYNE
                  Mother CATHERINE DAY
                  Sponsor 1 PATRICK GRIFFIN
                  Sponsor 2 CATHERINE MCDONNELL

                  can only see one marriage for those above:

                  Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) - BANDON
                  Marriage of THS LYONS of N/R and MARY LEARY of N/R on 5 November 1831
                  Witness 1 JERH FEHILY
                  Witness 3 ELIZA QUINN
                  Last edited by Katarzyna; 10-06-18, 23:32.
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                  • #29
                    I know there's no easy answer but how would you pinpoint one of these baptisms? I assume the Lyons will be easier to find as there isn't alot of Thomas Lyons around from what I have seen.

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                    • #30
                      Area - KERRY (RC) - KILGARVAN
                      Baptism of MARY MURNANE of ARDS on 1 May 1837 (Niece of Patrick perhaps)
                      Father DANIEL MURNANE
                      Mother JULIA SULLIVAN (Patrick's sister maybe)
                      Sponsor 1 PATRICK SULLIVAN
                      Sponsor 2 MARY HARRINGTON
                      Kat

                      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                      • #31
                        Have you found Thomas and Catherine on 1851 Wales Census?
                        Kat

                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                        • #32
                          No , unfortuanlty I can't find either of them.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I assume both Patrick and Thomas died in Ireland as I have searched and searched and never found any that fit the bill in Wales or England.

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                            • #34
                              I suspect they arrived in Wales during or just after the Irish Great Famine of 1845-50.
                              Censuses of 1821, 1831, 1841, and 1851 which would have helped you were destroyed in fire at PRO in 1922
                              Passenger lists were unavailable at the time because Ireland was considered to be part of Britain until 1922.
                              The main route patterns for Irish immigration to Britain were:
                              Emigrants from Ulster settled in Scotland
                              Emigrants from Connacht and the central strip of Ireland travelled via Dublin to Liverpool
                              Emigrants from Munster and other southerly or western areas of Ireland sailed to South Wales, London or the English south coast.
                              This last group mainly travelled via returning coal ships to South Wales basically packed in as ballast and were in quite dire straits on arrival - if they made it. Horrific when we think back on that now. Many settled in the Merthyr area.
                              If only your descendants had intimated an area they may have migrated from you might have had a chance to pinpoint the baptisms.
                              Have you followed Daniel through on Welsh Censuses? Just wondered if he may have indicated a more specific place of birth?
                              Proving that the Sullivans Elaine found are definitely yours is a big leap of faith but with naming patterns it looks feasible.
                              Kat

                              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                It's a shame they never thought about us and made it easier haha. I do see the names cropping up so they may be the correct ones. I have looked at daniel and he still puts Ireland.

                                As for the Lyons it should be easier to find them because there aren't many Thomas Lyons around from what ive seen.

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                                • #36
                                  1837-1874
                                  "There was no penalty for not registering a birth or death, so records from this time are incomplete, possibly a third of the population is missing from these early records."
                                  (taken from http://www.owenfamilyhistory.net/civilreg.html)

                                  This was my problem. I think you need to consider any available RC church & civic burial records. I presume that whenever possible, RC burials would have been in a non-denominational cemetery, rather than a C of E churchyard. I found Irish gt-gt grandmother purely by chance, whilst perusing the burial register of the RC church of the town where she was recorded in 1871 census, living with her son. Unfortunately, as yet, I have not been able to track down RC burials for the place where the family lived before 1861. I know the name of gt-gt grandfather, but until I can eliminate the possibility of either an English burial record or death registration, I know not whether he died in England or in Ireland.
                                  Perhaps a bit of background research on RC parishes and churches in the Rhonnda area would gives clues as to where you could look?

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Seems worth a shot, however i only have the family after1861 and Patrick was dead according to the marriage certifacte by 1860. So if he is not registered as buried in the church John got married in how then would you go about searching the burial records?

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                                    • #38
                                      Have you considered visiting Glamorgan Archives?
                                      Clos Parc Morgannwg
                                      Leckwith
                                      Cardiff
                                      CF11 8AW
                                      Tel.: 029 2087 2200
                                      Email: glamro@cardiff.gov.uk

                                      They may hold more records re Irish immigration. Also they should have settlement certificates or removal orders - documents you won't find online.
                                      Kat

                                      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                                      • #39
                                        I haven't, seems like a good idea though maybe me and my grandad can pop down one day. Hopefully we will find something 😀

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                                        • #40
                                          Been to see my grandfather, John and Catherine were married at the Catholic chapel of dowlais in Merthyr Tydfil.

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