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  • Goodwin

    Hello everyone, I'm back with a new conundrum.

    An elderly friend asked me to look into her ancestry. She gave me some pointers: Her father divorced her mother when she was very young and married his best friend's wife. His best friend married her mother - a straight swap, so to speak. She told me that an aunt or great aunt was a Bowes-Lyons who was incarcerated in a Lunatic Asylum on the A2 outside south east London - she lived there for the rest of her life. She also told me she was a descendant of James Brindley, the engineer.

    Margaret Mary was born 12/1/1933,but no mention where; she married twice, 1) Norman Hodgson, 2) Norman Mill, both of whom i knew.
    Her father was a Ralph Horace Goodwin, *14/9/1897 , Bucknall, Staffs , + 10/1992 Hove, Sussex. He left her a hefty sum in his will.
    His father was a John Brindley Goodwin, 1860-1933, Iron and Brass founder, married to (1885) Sarah Tunnicliff(e), 1864, Hanley, Staffs - 1934 Bucknall Staffs.

    The Brindleys I can follow easily to the mid 1700, from Norton in the Moors, Staffs - ironically from the same neck of the woods as James Brindley, so there may well be a connection.
    Try, as i might, i could not find a birth certificate for Margaret Mary Goodwin, born 1933, but I did find her , aged 8, at Doncaster, living with Edwin A Ellis, born 2/1/1905, works manager and her mother Margaret S Ellis, born 21.5.1905, the purported ex- wife of Ralph Horace Goodwin. this backs up Margaret's story to a certain extent. 'Ted' Ellis died in 1944. His 'widow' much later, in the 80s. I can find no marriage for these two.
    I cannot find any marriage(s) for Ralph Horace Goodwin, although, I know his daughter by his 'second' marriage to Ted Ellis's ex-wife. I did note, however, that the census records for the time Margaret Mary have been 'closed'. - what on earth does this mean? Can anyone assist? I have trawled the ancestry records, Geneanet, MyH, - but to no avail! thank you!, Peter/Gabby
    Last edited by Gabby; 16-05-18, 22:47. Reason: to clarify certain salient points

  • #2
    There was a Bowes Lyon who was in a home of some sort ..... I think she was a cousin of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

    Comment


    • #3
      Name Ralph H Goodwin
      Date of Registration 1930 - Apr-May-Jun
      Registration district Barrow-upon-Soar
      Inferred County Leicestershire
      Spouse Margaret S Heatherill
      Volume Number 7a
      Page number 451

      Births Mar 1933
      Goodwin Margaret M mmn Heatherill Leicester 7a 387

      On 1939 register she is recorded with Edwin Ellis as Margaret S Ellis married.
      but on Electoral Register for 1939 Doncaster she is recorded as Margaret Scott Goodwin with Edwin Ellis living 22 Town Moor Av.



      btw the 3rd record of the family group on 1939 register will remain closed until death has been verified.
      At the outbreak of World War II, the government urgently needed to know everything it could about the civil population of England and Wales. This info...
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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      • #4
        HEATHERILL, MARGARET SCOTT mmn LYON
        GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 283

        Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!

        1911 Census
        James Heatherill 40 Glasgow, Lanarkshire Paper Merchant
        Jessie C Heatherill 34 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
        James Graham Heatherill 8 Leicester, Leicestershire
        William Lyon Heatherill 6 " "
        Margaret Scott Heatherill 5 " "
        Gordon Heatherill 1 " "
        Mary Elizabeth Maddox 62 Caretaker
        Kat

        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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        • #5
          Marriage Sept Qtr 1939
          Gwendolyn M Baveystock to Ralph H Goodwin Leicester 7a 1057

          He is with Gwendolyn on 1939 register as Married. National Registration Day was September 29th

          Marriage Sept 1939
          Edwin A Ellis to Margaret S Goodwin/Heatherill Doncaster 9c 2600

          They must have divorced but cannot see a record at the moment.
          Kat

          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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          • #6
            The Queen Mother, who was Elizabeth Bowes Lyon before her marriage, had two NEICES, Katherine and Nerissa Bowes Lyon who spent their adult lives in an institution because they had severe learning difficulties. They were the daughters of the QMs brother.

            OC

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            • #7
              Found this in Leicester Daily Mercury 30 August 1939

              Image.JPG

              Edit
              and this:
              Nottingham Evening Post 20 February 1939

              Capture 11.JPG
              Last edited by Katarzyna; 17-05-18, 08:07.
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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              • #8
                Just passing by and realise I meant to point out that the marriages were found on FreeBMD - https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
                and the births with mmn - Mothers maiden name - are freely available on GRO as are deaths but not marriages. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...es/default.asp
                You have to register first for free then click on "Search the GRO Online index".
                Last edited by Katarzyna; 17-05-18, 10:34.
                Kat

                My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                • #9
                  For what it's worth! There were five females associated with this family who spent their adult years in a mental institution.

                  They were

                  Nerissa Bowes-Lyon 1919-1986
                  Katherine Bowes-Lyon 1926-2014
                  Idonea Fane 1912-2001
                  Rosemary Fane 1914-1972
                  Etheldreda Fane 1922-1996

                  Their maternal grandfather, who placed them in the hospital, was 21st Baron Clinton, Charles John Robert Hepburn-Stuart-Forbes-Trefusis. He married Lady Jane Gray McDonnell.

                  So there's a few surnames to play with!

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Marriage: JAMES HEATHERILL to JESSIE CHRISTIE LYON in 1901 - Ref 644/7 1017 - RD name Blythswood, Lanarkshire from Scotlands People: https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/r...stat_marriages

                    Maybe this is the line to follow for the Bowes-Lyons connection

                    Scotlands People is also free to search the indexes - you need to pay credits for the images which could contain a lot more info.
                    Last edited by Katarzyna; 17-05-18, 11:07.
                    Kat

                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for that Sylvia - it turns out that Margaret Scott Heatherill (Ellis/Goodwin) , had a bother called William Lyon Heatherill, - another pointer to the possibility of a Bowes Lyon connection. Peter

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                      • #12
                        Indeed Katarzyna! where on earth do you find this - through Ancestry? I am with Ancestry and these golden snippets are very elusive! Thank you very much!
                        Peter

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                        • #13
                          If you follow the links they show where the info came from. Also if you read posts 8 and 10 you will see the free sites I used.
                          The newspaper cuttings are from https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ or www.findmypast.co.uk but you need a subscription for that or buy some credits.
                          Sometimes fmp do some good offers or even free weekends - you will see someone will post that up on this forum if that happens so keep an eye out!
                          The references posted on here are just pointers; hopefully in the right direction. You need to encourage your friend to buy some birth and marriage certificates to make sure you are going along the correct lines. It is very easy to go wrong without them.
                          Last edited by Katarzyna; 17-05-18, 17:27.
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Intriguing but probably irrelevant - Michael Bowes Lyon married Isobel Weatherall! One letter different.

                            OC

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                            • #15
                              That is amazeballs! Thank you very much...and the Scots are so much easier to trace! Peter

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                              • #16
                                Intriguing indeed! Thanks - I shall ferret! Peter

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                                • #17
                                  Excited to find this - Margaret Scott Heatherill was my 1st cousin 2x removed (I never met her - her aunt, Agnes Crawford Heatherill was my great grandmother), so your elderly friend must be related to me!! :-) As far as I am aware, Margaret also had brothers James Graham Heatherill, and Gordon Heatherill. You can find out more about Margaret's Lyon connection here http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/Lyon/.

                                  Would love to make contact and hear more about your discoveries - and share any other info I have that you think might be useful. Maggie http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/s/i/l/M...ver/index.html
                                  "Daisy"

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