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  • George Cross and Millicent Clark

    Their daughter Charlotte Clarke Cross is my husbands G Grandmother. Born 1853 Staveley bap 1863 Parish of Hope Derbyshire. Married James Edward Parkes and died 1937 Ilkeston.

    George Cross is born in Thorpe Acre Leicestershire any time between 1810 and 1832 according to records. He died 1901 aged 90 in Staveley Derbys where he lived from 1851 census

    Millicent Clarkes is born between 1825 and 1835 and dies 1902 Staveley Derbys aged 77. With George since 1851 on census.

    They marry in 4 Oct 1875 at Chesterfield Parish Church
    George Cross aged 56 Widow miner of Stonegravels. Father Richard Cross Labourer
    Melicent Clark aged 42 widow _ Stonegravels. Father Richard Clark deceased.

    This marriage is on ancestry.

    both sign with a cross and the witnesses are
    Francis Parkes. Francis Parkes son James Edward is married to Charlotte Clarke Cross as above. They married in 1872.
    Ann Heafield x

    Can anyone work out if they were ever married before or used it as an excuse for not marrying until they had finished having children?

    Also who they are. There is a George Cross in Loughborough in 1841 that I think is him living on the outskirts of Thorpe Acre and a Richard and Elizabeth living in Thorpe Acre who could be his parents but I can't make any connection.

    Thanks for your patience
    Lin

    Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

  • #2
    Still looking at all of it.

    Found their first daughter Elizabeth Ann bap at Emmanual Swadlincote Derbys 6 Aug 1848. So the 1851 census with George and wife M and daughter E is definitely Millicent and not any other woman.
    Lin

    Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

    Comment


    • #3
      A bit puzzled! I would say both were definitely married before. What advantage would there be in waiting till they finished having children?

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks OC

        I was busy looking for a marriage that I couldn't find when I began to think differently.

        Also what I didn't comment on and wondered if anyone else would see it. Millicent's father was called Clark.

        This has only just registered with me. Blaming it on the cold I have. All the children are on GRO as Clark or Clarke as MMN.

        Every time I think about it I find something else.
        Lin

        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, I did spot that but assumed it was a mistake on the Vicar's part, I have something similar , but not if as you say the children are registered with mmn Clark. Perhaps she wasn't previously married or perhaps she was Miss Clark who married Mr Clark!

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks, yes, I've had the same thing but nothing is jumping out at me.
            Lin

            Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

            Comment


            • #7
              England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
              Name George Cross
              Gender Male
              Baptism Date 25 Dec 1832
              Baptism Place Thorpe Acre and Dishley,Leicester,England
              Father Richard Cross
              Mother Elizabeth
              FHL Film Number 592701
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #8
                The evidence you have shows that they weren't married (to each other) until 1875, yet the birth of Charlotte CROSS in 1853 appears to have been registered as a married couple (do you have a certificate for that and any other children's births ?).

                So they seem to lying about their marital status twenty years before they actually marry - why ?

                The marriage registration showing her father's name as CLARK suggests that she may not have been married before - but my guess would be that George was married to someone else, who probably died just before 1875, leaving them free to marry finally.

                The birth registration of Elizabeth Ann CROSS in 1848 has no maiden name shown, so it looks like no father is named on that one, yet the mother used the name CROSS, that would be an interesting certificate to see.
                Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Kat and Anthony.

                  I have seen that baptism and decided that it was his and is why I put birth varying in between 1810 and 1832. I know that bap can be done as an older person. I have even put Richard and Elizabeth in my tree and found their deaths in Thorpe Acre. There are so many discrepancies. I have found Elizabeth Anns bap at Swadlincote that has George and Millicent as parents.

                  Anthony. I don't have any certificates for this family as it is my OH and no one is in the family is interested except me. Most are from Derbyshire so invested in ancestry earlier this month as they had uploaded a lot of Derbyshire parish records.

                  Everyone is seeming to come to the same conclusion as I did.

                  The only things that worry me are Elizabeth Anns bap in Swadlincote and most of the other children were bap at The Parish Church of Hope. Not at the same time and the only one I can find is near Castleton which is a long way from Staveley.

                  Also their daughter Charlotte got married in Staveley Church in 1872 and they marry in Chesterfield church in 1875. Its as though they don't want people to know they were not married.

                  Off to have another look for a marriage for George.

                  Thanks everyone
                  Lin

                  Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Without certificates for some of the key individuals you are always working from assumptions and guesswork - that's where an awful lot of trees go wrong.
                    Last edited by AntonyM; 21-01-18, 12:55.
                    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anthony. I totally agree with you and have got all the certificates for my direct ancestors and they are so informative and I would not have got there without them.

                      As no one is interested in my in-laws family I feel loath to start buying them.

                      Might change my mind if I don't get any further.

                      Thanks
                      Lin

                      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is a problem, and we can't buy all the ones we would like - but one or two key ones can make all the difference.

                        I once had to look at a tree that went all the way back to the early 1600s, but because the researcher made an assumption (and didn't get a birth certificate) for an 1880s event nearly all of it was on completely the wrong family.

                        The good news is that because FreeBMD and GRO use different indexing rules it is sometimes now possible to make assumptions a little more accurately based on the different way the same entry is indexed on the two systems
                        Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                        Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I should think they DEFINITELY didn't want people to know they weren't already married! It would have been a very shameful thing, even if quite a few others were doing it too.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wonder if any of the children knew?

                            Thanks Anthony. I would like to do everything right but it isn't going to be a public tree anywhere and is for my enjoyment mainly. What I have is right but its putting the extra bits in that makes it more interesting.

                            Been looking at George Cross in Thorpe Acre with father Richard. Just looked at Baptisms and have 5 children bap in 1832 to them so will now presume that Richard and Elizabeth are his parents. Haven't found their marriage but Elizabeth is born out of county so still looking.
                            Lin

                            Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
                              I wonder if any of the children knew?
                              Well their daughter Charlotte must have known as she was married to the son of Francis Parkes - one of the witnesses. This is a strange one.
                              Maybe they started living together as man and wife after they had their first child and then never got round to marrying. Maybe they were embarrassed to tell the vicar or indeed their daughter's F-I-L Francis that they weren't married so decided to lie on signing the register. Who knows what conversations had taken place between the Parkes's and Cross's that they felt they had to lie.
                              Kat

                              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Wouldn't we all like to be a fly on the wall of our ancestors.
                                Lin

                                Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  if you use the online GRO indexes you can order PDF's for births/deaths at £6... and maybe you could even get a copy of the marriage from the Parish records for 50p from the library [local studies]
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Julie

                                    I have a copy of George and Millicents marriage from Ancestry. That's when I found out they were widows. Before that I was only looking for births and wondering why they hadn't married.

                                    Every census and even the marriage cert has them born different years and no idea who Millicent was. Can't find another marriage and there is an 1841 census in Heanor for Millicent aged 13 with Ann (mother) and John (brother) aged 7. Then the trail went cold again.
                                    Lin

                                    Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Lin have a look at this and tell me what you think

                                      1891 census: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true
                                      Source Citation
                                      The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Census Returns of England and Wales, 1891; Class: RG12; Piece: 2768; Folio: 103; Page: 18; GSU roll: 6097878

                                      that is right/them isn't it George & Milly Cross?
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Julie

                                        I have looked at this loads of time and I keep thinking it said Millicent was born at Honey Ford. But does it say Stoneyford. As in Stoneyford Ferry pub. As in
                                        Langley Mill.

                                        Sorry everyone else but you need to be local to us to know where it is.

                                        So that Heanor 1841 census could be right. Also one of the other census said Ilkeston which I thought was wrong but where her daughter was living.

                                        Are you seeing the same birth place
                                        Lin

                                        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

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