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  • #21
    Hi, Darksecretz thanks so much for your help. I had already found the Census records from 1891 and 1901 for Henry, it's his use of the W in the first one that made me think it could be him. I have placed a PDF order for William's birth certificate, hopefully this will help confirm his middle name. The fact the Ellen died in 1910 is making me sure that the marriage is with the Henry we're looking for, hopefully this will be confirmed in his marriage certificate (or at least that he is not a bachelor), I ordered an online copy of the marriage certificate as well, which should arrive in four working days, i.e. tomorrow.

    I'm intrigued by Mary however. If she is indeed the birth you found earlier, I question the name change. It's pretty obvious that Mary was raised like a child of Henry and Ellen's, maybe she was born out of wedlock, and given to her aunt and uncle so she appeared to be their child? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. There's no knowledge of her within the family, which leads me to think she lost contact, probably after Henry's death. I suppose these are questions that are difficult to truly answer.

    Hopefully, over the next few days we'll have a bit more information to work with!

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    • #22
      Originally posted by alex27 View Post
      Hi, Darksecretz thanks so much for your help. I had already found the Census records from 1891 and 1901 for Henry, it's his use of the W in the first one that made me think it could be him. I have placed a PDF order for William's birth certificate, hopefully this will help confirm his middle name. The fact the Ellen died in 1910 is making me sure that the marriage is with the Henry we're looking for, hopefully this will be confirmed in his marriage certificate (or at least that he is not a bachelor), I ordered an online copy of the marriage certificate as well, which should arrive in four working days, i.e. tomorrow.

      I'm intrigued by Mary however. If she is indeed the birth you found earlier, I question the name change. It's pretty obvious that Mary was raised like a child of Henry and Ellen's, maybe she was born out of wedlock, and given to her aunt and uncle so she appeared to be their child? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. There's no knowledge of her within the family, which leads me to think she lost contact, probably after Henry's death. I suppose these are questions that are difficult to truly answer.

      Hopefully, over the next few days we'll have a bit more information to work with!
      I nearly suggested that maybe Ellen couldn't have children? so they took on her sisters as though she was their own. Don't suppose we'll know unless curiosity gets the better of you and you order the pdf for Mary Eliza. :smilee:

      hopefully Alex we will get some answers when you get the results of the certs
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

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      • #23
        erm Alex how did you order an online marriage cert?

        wasn't sure that the GRO did pdf's of marriages now for download? [thought it was just birth & death]
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
          erm Alex how did you order an online marriage cert?

          wasn't sure that the GRO did pdf's of marriages now for download? [thought it was just birth & death]
          I did it through ancestry, was quite the bit more expensive than the GRO birth pdf's.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by alex27 View Post
            I did it through ancestry, was quite the bit more expensive than the GRO birth pdf's.
            OUCH! sorry that you have been duped!.. I would complain if it were me [they get the cert from the GRO too!] the only place to go nowadays is GRO as they only charge £6 for a pdf.. if ever you are uncertain about anything please ask, our members are only too willing to help. :smilee:
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

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            • #26
              I had never looked before but Ancestry charge for Standard (up to 16 working days) - £22.99 and for Express (up to 6 working days) - £39.99. That is unbelievable. For a marriage cert we pay £9.25 from GRO and that includes postal charges to anywhere in the world. £23.40 for next day delivery. I don't think we really appreciate what a great service we have here in the UK. I still grumble having to pay £6 for a digitised birth or death cert LOL.
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                I had never looked before but Ancestry charge for Standard (up to 16 working days) - £22.99 and for Express (up to 6 working days) - £39.99. That is unbelievable. For a marriage cert we pay £9.25 from GRO and that includes postal charges to anywhere in the world. £23.40 for next day delivery. I don't think we really appreciate what a great service we have here in the UK. I still grumble having to pay £6 for a digitised birth or death cert LOL.
                I looked ages ago Kat, when someone else got bit by using Officialukcerts [or whatever it was called then] I cannot believe that Ancestry simply get away with this.. it's disgusting!.. just goes to show that cos they are a BIG name in Family History people that don't understand where to get the certs from [and think that Ancestry are the people that they NEED to go to]
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #28
                  Henry White's marriage certificate to Edith Augusta Waters has returned! It has Henry at age 45, suggesting an 1865/66 birth. Whilst, Edith is 34, consistent with the 1911 census. They are both widows, this was already confirmed for Edith, but it looks like that is confirmation for the marriage between Henry and Ellen. He is put down as a dealer, no mention of fish but one imagine's that it is. Both live in Burley. The marriage took place in February, the exact date being hard to read. The certificate says that Henry's middle name was indeed William, and that his father too is William White, and worked as a coal merchant. The certificate suggests that he is still alive in 1911, because Edith's father is put down as deceased, whilst William is not.

                  In relation to the interest in Mary White. I did find a birth certificate of a Mary Kate White, born in Jul-Aug-Sep 1885 in Ringwood. That would make sense for the 1886 census birth in 1891 and 1901. Moreover, there was no mother's maiden name, would this suggest that she was born out of wedlock? I'm more inclined to think that this is the Mary in question, and have ordered a copy of her birth certificate, hoping to get a name of a parent which would be a direct relation to Henry, helping me to decipher between what I imagine are several families that include a William and Henry White in this area during this period.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by alex27 View Post
                    Henry White's marriage certificate to Edith Augusta Waters has returned! It has Henry at age 45, suggesting an 1865/66 birth. Whilst, Edith is 34, consistent with the 1911 census. They are both widows, this was already confirmed for Edith, but it looks like that is confirmation for the marriage between Henry and Ellen. He is put down as a dealer, no mention of fish but one imagine's that it is. Both live in Burley. The marriage took place in February, the exact date being hard to read. The certificate says that Henry's middle name was indeed William, and that his father too is William White, and worked as a coal merchant. The certificate suggests that he is still alive in 1911, because Edith's father is put down as deceased, whilst William is not.

                    In relation to the interest in Mary White. I did find a birth certificate of a Mary Kate White, born in Jul-Aug-Sep 1885 in Ringwood. That would make sense for the 1886 census birth in 1891 and 1901. Moreover, there was no mother's maiden name, would this suggest that she was born out of wedlock? I'm more inclined to think that this is the Mary in question, and have ordered a copy of her birth certificate, hoping to get a name of a parent which would be a direct relation to Henry, helping me to decipher between what I imagine are several families that include a William and Henry White in this area during this period.

                    hmmn just because Edith said her father was dead and Henry didn't doesn't automatically mean he wasn't, I have plenty of certs that say the fathers name but doesn't mention that they had been dead for years! :smilee: Are you ordering the first marriage as well then? [to confirm that he is indeed the one and the same person?] and or Ellens death cert?

                    what of the witness' names on the marriage cert? do they glean any info?

                    good call on that Mary Kate.. hopefully it is part of the same family. I think usually when there is no name for MMN it means that the mother is unmarried. But I have also seen instances where the mother clearly isn't married but using a married name as though she was!

                    if you want us to have a look at the marriage cert you can use https://vgy.me/ to post it on here and use the IMG line to post it on here.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      William Robert White, and Mary Kate White's birth certificates also came through today. William's once again used William as a middle name for Henry, so I'm sure that this is official. Mary's was fatherless, born on the 11th July 1885, mother is Sarah White, who could be a sister of Henry's? She is working as a domestic servant. I had previously struggled to find a convincing census record for Henry with William as a father. There's one in Stockbridge, but that isn't him. I have however, found a census record for 1881, with a Sarah White aged 17, living with a father William aged 49, and a mother Sarah who is 64, perhaps this is inaccurate which is why I have been unable to find any other record of the family. Henry would be 15 at this time, but there are no other siblings, maybe he is elsewhere, or I could be clutching at straws. Interestingly, ancestry connects the Sarah in the census to an admission into the death index in Apr-May-Jun 1887, so conveniently around 18 months after the birth of Mary, the ages match up as well.

                      I have ordered the marriage certificate of Ellen and Henry hopefully to confirm that they are related, I feel as though I'm trying to make something out of several loose ends here but hopefully it will work. The witness' names on the certificate were William and Harry Fish, odd considering his line of work, perhaps I'll investigate into them but they may be important towards the end of his life which I have a fair understanding of.

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                      • #31
                        Possibility if you do find henry's birth, that he was registered without a middle name. Also, may have been illegitimate himself, it's known people used to put down their grandfather's names on marriage certs sometimes to hide the fact.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by alex27 View Post
                          William Robert White
                          Who is this please?
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Alex, do you have his death cert? was his obituary/funeral in any newspapers? they may contain info about other family members. I'm a bit worried that he may not have been born in Burley at all [or even Hampshire] I have found a few Harry White's in/around New Forest area but until we have more info we could be at this for a long time. It might be that he was born elsewhere and then his parents moved there whilst he was very small but believed that he was born there. [it does happen]
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

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