Family members I don't know think I'm a "hoax".

[Daniel]

My thoughts are that this plan would only further seriously escalate your problem rather than resolve it. It would have no relevance in proving your genealogical links to the people in the US, and if it were me, such a measure would only add to my suspicions about your intentions.

I was just trying to respond to the allegation that I was a "hoax".

As several of us have intimated upthread, are you wanting to find out about deceased shared ancestry or is your interest in living persons who you believe have a place on your family tree? (I personally wouldn't give out to an unknown third party any details of living persons and, from a family tree perspective, I'm not particularly interested in them anyway!) Have you made your research purpose clear to the folks in the US?

As I explained I was trying to find out about living relatives for the purpose of contacting them in order to find more historical information.

I think you may have got yourself into a bit of an impasse and are going to have to tread very carefully to restore confidence and trust. Sadly, at the end of the day, if they're not interested in family history and don't want to talk about it, there's not much you can do. Have you tried to work out what went wrong to upset your contact?

Jay

One thing is very clear. They are definitely interested in our family genealogy. Although they didn't mention it is suspect that they are indeed concerned that I have been asking about living relatives.

[Elizabeth Herts]

Daniel, your frustration is understandable. However, if these people have decided they don't want to meet you or have contact with you, your plans seem designed to alienate them further. I'm afraid the more you pursue this, the more likely they are to dig in their heels and refuse contact, and you could just make a bad situation worse.

I think you will have to step back a little and respect their decision.

[Daniel]

Daniel, your frustration is understandable. However, if these people have decided they don't want to meet you or have contact with you, your plans seem designed to alienate them further. I'm afraid the more you pursue this, the more likely they are to dig in their heels and refuse contact, and you could just make a bad situation worse.

I think you will have to step back a little and respect their decision.

So you think that sending a Christmas is also not advisable?

[Jill on the A272]

I have been formulating a brazen plan and wonder what you think of it. Upon arrival in the U.S., I would like to visit the local police and have them draw up a document proving my identity. I will bring all my important documents with me. In addition they should have access to my finger prints somehow. It should not be a problem if they are willing to do this. Then I can show this document to anyone who needs to see it. What do you think about that?

If the US police are anything like the UK police they would not co-operate. Your contact my start thinking of you as a stalker if you are too persistent.

[Olde Crone Holden]

If I discovered that someone had been asking about my living relatives, particularly about my children and grandchildren then I would sever all contact with them. That is not family HISTORY, it is snooping or at best, crass disregard for other peoples privacy and safety.

You can continue your research without meeting living relatives, who in any case, never met your mutual 3 x ggf. And you do have 31 other 3 x ggps to research!

OC

[Daniel]

If I discovered that someone had been asking about my living relatives, particularly about my children and grandchildren then I would sever all contact with them. That is not family HISTORY, it is snooping or at best, crass disregard for other peoples privacy and safety.

You can continue your research without meeting living relatives, who in any case, never met your mutual 3 x ggf. And you do have 31 other 3 x ggps to research!

OC

I sense a lot of anger in your response. Perhaps you have had a bad experience. If that is so I sympathize with you. I reluctantly decided to approach living relatives because I was told that this was absolutely necessary. I admit that I am rather new at this and naive. I will definitely try to be more sensitive in the future. I am particularly interested is these grandparents because I believe that my grandmother's family came from Holland where I now live. I do not have time to research all of my ancestors but have greatly expanded my approach in the hope of finding a useful lead. Of course, if people tell me that they don't want to help, I will respect that. It would be helpful if people would be straight forward but apparently they are worried about even doing that. But as the Dutch say "overmacht" which means that is beyond my control.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Daniel, no, not anger as such but it has made me very wary of sharing information until I have built up some mutual trust and understanding of what other people's motives are. I think most long term researchers will tell you the same as most of us have been burnt!

It is very tempting to think that living descendants will know more than you know. Sometimes they do, but very often they only know what they have been told, which isn't always the truth....and don't they get cross when you present the facts! We have seen it so many times on here.

Do your own primary research and that way you will know it is accurate. You could start another thread on here with what you know and we will try to find the Dutch connection if there is one. No living people though!

OC

[Daniel]

Daniel, no, not anger as such but it has made me very wary of sharing information until I have built up some mutual trust and understanding of what other people's motives are. I think most long term researchers will tell you the same as most of us have been burnt!

It is very tempting to think that living descendants will know more than you know. Sometimes they do, but very often they only know what they have been told, which isn't always the truth....and don't they get cross when you present the facts! We have seen it so many times on here.

Do your own primary research and that way you will know it is accurate. You could start another thread on here with what you know and we will try to find the Dutch connection if there is one. No living people though!

OC

Thank you for your wise words. I think that this thread has run its course. When I first started my research I shared my information with this forum and people did help me. There really isn't much more to tell at the moment. It turns out that the records got burned in Phelps, Ontario, New York, where Margaret van Etten and Coonrod Huffman lived in the early 1800s, long ago and everything was lost. I even went there but found nothing much except Coonrod's grave which I already had a picture of.

So the only way to proceed seems to be living relatives as difficult as that might be. These people said that they have a lot old photos. The grandmother is very old and remembers a lot of things. I have decided to send a Christmas card to them as suggested. I added my own twist by saying that I was sorry if I alarmed them and would not try to contact them again until or if I received word from them. I used the neutral meeting place suggestion for next summer. Guess I will have to leave it there and chalk it up to hard won experience.

[Guy]

Daniel, no, not anger as such but it has made me very wary of sharing information until I have built up some mutual trust and understanding of what other people's motives are. I think most long term researchers will tell you the same as most of us have been burnt!

It is very tempting to think that living descendants will know more than you know. Sometimes they do, but very often they only know what they have been told, which isn't always the truth....and don't they get cross when you present the facts! We have seen it so many times on here.

Do your own primary research and that way you will know it is accurate. You could start another thread on here with what you know and we will try to find the Dutch connection if there is one. No living people though!

OC

I can only speak from experience but!
I have had almost the opposite experience OC, I have never had a bad response from any person I have contacted about my family history in any of the over 60 years I have been researching.
I have had a few people contact me and ask why they have not been included on my various websites.

I also believe that history in general and family history in particular starts now ...... and now .... and now in other words history is not something that starts in the past but starts with the moment we live it.

The only people who can give you the true family history are the people involved as it happens, everything elese is a second rate account based on memories, secondhand information and written accounts often by some person with an axe to grind or an official reason to collect the information which is biased to that reason.

There are very, very, very few primary records available to research family history (by primary I mean first hand records rather than transcripts or recorded hearsay).

I have also found that those who make the most noise about privacy have not idea what privacy is (the reason we do not have a law of privacy in the UK is because lawyers cannot designate what privacy means).
Incidentaly all the UK laws that involve some attempt to safeguard privacy are laws put in place to protect the public from the government and authorities not to protect individuals from other individuals.
E.G. The Data Protection Act 2000 a law designed to ensure data compiled and stored by government and authorities was accurate, used for the purpose it was gathered and destroyed when that use ended.
It was never intended to prevent the public from accessing information as many archives and libraries seem to think.

Cheers
Guy

[Olde Crone Holden]

So, Guy, what do you think is behind Daniel's problem then and how should he best solve it?

OC

[Daniel]

So, Guy, what do you think is behind Daniel's problem then and how should he best solve it?

OC

Frankly I am not sure what the privacy law is in the States where I am doing my research. However, I certainly do not want to get arrested for stalking. If Guy has always had success dealing with his contacts I would like to hear what his tactics are. Was he doing his research in the U.K. or in the U.S. or some other place?

[Daniel]

We talked about the fact that I contacted the forum before about this project. The first thread was "Conrad Huffman and Margaret van Etten..." which was started August 27th, 2014. The second thread was "Margaret van Etten Hoffman b. abt 1796" which was started on September 28th, 2014. As I mentioned I don't have much information to add at this time.

[PhotoFamily]

Frankly I am not sure what the privacy law is in the States where I am doing my research. However, I certainly do not want to get arrested for stalking.

First - Most records are held at the State or county level, and each state sets its own rules/regs about their release.
Second - Vital records are usually tightly held, but again that varies by state. Identity theft is a major concern, and access to vital records facilitate that. Your cousins may be quite concerned about that possibility.
Third - Unless it's fallacious, there's very little right to privacy of info that has been made public.
Last - Stalker laws will vary widely by locale. But even if an activity doesn't fall within the law's definition, none of us wants to be that relative...

When I contact cousins, I usually include a phrase, I'm interested in learning more about our common ancestors.

[Elizabeth Herts]

Sometimes I have had immediate replies, sometimes I have had no reply at all. However, I would be grateful for the replies I receive and accept the fact that not everyone will reply.

What you must bear in mind, when you send an e-mail or letter, is that you have no idea what is going on in that person's life. Perhaps they are very busy with their everyday problems, such as bringing up or supporting a family, or caring for an elderly or sick relative, or perhaps they are ill themselves or have been recently bereaved. Perhaps they are just not interested. Be thankful for whatever information comes your way, but don't expect it as a right and accept the decision with good grace.

[Daniel]

[QUOTE=Elizabeth Herts;2618341]Sometimes I have had immediate replies, sometimes I have had no reply at all. However, I would be grateful for the replies I receive and accept the fact that not everyone will reply.

Like I said "overmacht". In an ideal world people would let you know if they were interested in helping you or not. It would save a lot of grief for everybody. Another problem in my opinion is establishing who you are. It would be nice if there was some kind of dependable ID that genealogy enthusiasts could use so that people don't think that you are a "hoax".

[Guy]

First remember most people have no interest in family history and many will not reply.
Always enclose a S.A.E. (stamped addressed envelope) for their reply or an International Reply Coupon don’t expect them to pay to reply to you.
Email is a modern alternative

As with all family history research patience is required, what family historians think of as imperative others leave until they have time to think about it.

There are a number of approaches I use but please remember any letter or email should be personal to the person it is sent to not just a generic posting that could be sent to anyone.
Generic letters and email look like information harvesting attempts.

If I have not contacted the person before I introduce myself giving brief details about me and my interest in family history. This has to be enough to allow whoever I am writing to see I am genuine but not so much it becomes boring to someone not interested in family history. This is very important and may be your only chance to establish contact with a particular person.

Never be intrusive or pushy but guide them by giving some details of what you know and ask if they have any further details they are willing to share.

If you have not tried contacting others before at this stage put the letter away for a day or two (or show it to your husband or wife etc., and ask them how they would feel if that letter arrived in their post box) then read it again as if it has been sent to you.
If you still feel it is a letter you would reply to post it or send the email.

Remember it is up to you to be straight and open to give the person you are contacting enough trust in you they want to reply.
It is a bit like job applications give enough information about yourself to inform but not so much it is obsessive

Cheers
Guy

[Daniel]

Thank you Guy. I admit having violated some of these suggestions. For instance, I did use a sort of form letter because I basically wanted to say the same thing to each person. Also my letter may have been too long although it was only one page. I will have to think about what you have told me.

[Tilly Mint]

Wise words from Guy, Daniel. Don't beat yourself up over it....we all make mistakes and you will learn from yours as we did.

I think its hard to follow but "Patience is a virtue" is whats needed in genealogy.;) Hold fire for now and see what happens.

[Sylvia C]

Very wise words from Guy!

But also remember that many Americans are much more suspicious of "outsiders" than you might think. Hence some of Trump's plans.

We lived there for almost a year back in the 60s, and found it very hard to make good friends .... everything was very superficial. We did find people in some States were much friendly that those living elsewhere ...... and I honestly have not seen much change in the 50 years since (we meet a lot of Americans up here, have colleagues, and some good American friends).

Be cautious

Explain yourself clearly but briefly

There used to be a saying "Slowly, slowly catchy monkey" or “Softly, softly, catchee monkey.

It basically meant if you are cautious and patient then you will get what you want and not make any mistakes. but if you are hasty and impatient then you will make a mistake and you will never "catch the monkey" (i.e. reach your goal).

[Daniel]

I think your message is really interesting Sylvia. I was born in California but my parents came from near where the people are that are suspicious of me. I actually got my bachelor's degree from Indiana University in Bloomington. People in the Midwest, as we called it, seem to me to be more provincial than on either coast. Many of them have never been beyond U.S. borders. I have never been in Canada so couldn't make any comparisons about that. But given all the above I am still very curious about my family's lives before I was born. Luckily I still have a cousin who was very close to my parents and who lives in Detroit. He at least will be glad to see me.