Hello everyone! I am new here :o and was wondering if this amazing community could help me with a brick wall.
Warning! A massive wall of text ahead. And huge thank you in advance for anyone who is willing to help!
I have been researching my husbands family tree for a while now, and while his paternal line was extremely straightforward (as they were mainly English with a mix of 18th century Jewish thrown in (bonus - his astoundingly diverse Ancestry DNA screenshot at the end of this post), his maternal line is shrouded in mysteries and different nationalities and what appears to be myths and wishful thinking/aristocracy rumours. There is lots of lore that got passed down, from Italian royalty with castles to super-rich Greek casino owners who lost everything in the end. While alluring and exciting, it is rather frustrating as there is very little facts or dates to back any of it up. A lot of the information is very blurry, so i decided to focus on my husband's maternal great-grandfather who appears to have served in the Royal Navy and so far debunked the myth of him being an Admiral or a Captain that floated around in the family. Unfortunately, most of that side of the family passed away, so gathering information is extremely difficult, but i will try to cover the naval granddad's story as short as i can. This gentleman is an utter mystery and i feel like Sherlock Holmes trying to unravel his life story with deduction.
Photos in Uniform: Link Imgur
Name/Last Name: Harry Thompson
Middle Names: Unknown, does not appear on his daughters Baptism papers, appears as just “Harry Thompson”. This is the only document i have of him plus photos.
Date of Birth: Unknown. Most likely somewhere in uk. Possible range of 1982-1912.
Date of Death: Unknown. But definitely before 1957 (as the entire family up and left Egypt for England (Suez Crisis is my guess - the family is not big on history so they just told me they got “expelled” from Egypt). His wife married again apparently after his death. She married again either in Egypt or in UK. My best bet (see explanation below) would be on late 1930's to early-mid 1940's.
Nationality: British subject (possibly of Scottish origin, as the family said he was Scottish, however it is unknown if he lived there or just had Scottish blood).
Military: as far as i could find out, Royal Navy, served in WWI as per a thread on /r/Militariacollecting and corroborating replies to a thread on Ancestry boards.
Rank (based on the uniform - cap, collar, sleeve, medal ribbons):
Medal Ribbons: (identified by two different users on two different websites, both with same answers, so good certainty there)
Issue: Lydia Amelia Thompson (Married Joannides, later married Beach) & Theresa Joannides (un-identical twins, born on same day) DOB: 4 Aug 1934 Alexandria, Egypt. Lydia's DOD: 24 Sep 2009, Italy. (Lived in UK from 1957 until a lot later in her life) Theresa's DOD: 29 November 1979, London, UK
Marriage factoid: It is rumoured that he was ~20 years older than Mary Camilleri.
Spouse: Mary/Maria Camilleri (Listed as ?Fausta? on their daughters baptism, however her UK Death record (i do not posses the certificate itself yet). B: 19 Apr 1912 in Milano, Lombardia, Italy (questionable, could be Sicily, date however is a definite). D: 7 Jun 1993 in Fulham, London, UK. Fausta could be her middle name as homage to her father Gustav(e) Camilleri who also died in London in Nov 1960. She had a second husband who appears to have also died in Alexandria, his name was Elio Rousso, he appears to have died prior to family coming over to UK, however he had children with Mary who also came to UK.
The deduction theory used to find out his rough period of service/life:
The OS insignia was not in circulation until 1931, his daughter was born in 1934, in 1957 the family left for England without him and his wife without her new husband who she appears to have married in Egypt. He was also yet again a lot older than his wife. His wife had two children with her new husband around 1930-1950(he died around 1950) This gives me a…
Life period of sometime from ~1892 to 1937-1950.
The family that came over and lived together in UK shortly after as per Electoral Register of 1960:
Lydia Thompson (daughter) - “Joannides” at the time of moving to UK in 1957. This is where my husbands Greek DNA comes from.
George Joannides - Lydia’s Husband (moved to UK with family, but didn’t live with them)
Theresa Thompson (daughter)
Gustav Camilleri (Harry’s wife’s parent)
Giovanna Maria Camilleri (Harry’s wife’s parent) - Maria Giovanna also possible. (Died 1965, Camberwell, London)
Mary/Maria Fausta? Camilleri who has now become Rousso, maiden name unknown. (Wife)
Mary+New Husban's Daughter
Mary+New Husbands Son
*Disclaimer: *All people mentioned in the post are now deceased. Any records of living descendants implied in this post are open to the public.
Where i looked: British Consulate Records, Naval Medal Rolls (there’s just too many Harry Thompsons to pin him down and looking for rank, country, or shore establishment yielded no results), British subjects born overseas, Incoming Passengers to UK (which go until 1960) etc, etc… none of the family appear on any records there. I have worldwide ancestry subscription and i currently have a “world” running trial on findmypast. Checked variations and tons of records there to no avail.
What else can i do at this point to push through this brick wall? Did i miss something or did i not make a connection somewhere where i could have? What other avenues could i explore to get past this? This has now become something of an obsession, i am not the type to leave a project half finished and this is killing me every time i think of possibilities i could have once i get past it.
Thank you for reading and any input you could provide!Here’s the promised ultra-diverse DNA result snap.https://imgur.com/a/Yh3E6 Interesting fact, on MyHeritage his DNA shows Italian, while Ancestry missed it. Camilleri is the Italian line in the family.
Warning! A massive wall of text ahead. And huge thank you in advance for anyone who is willing to help!
I have been researching my husbands family tree for a while now, and while his paternal line was extremely straightforward (as they were mainly English with a mix of 18th century Jewish thrown in (bonus - his astoundingly diverse Ancestry DNA screenshot at the end of this post), his maternal line is shrouded in mysteries and different nationalities and what appears to be myths and wishful thinking/aristocracy rumours. There is lots of lore that got passed down, from Italian royalty with castles to super-rich Greek casino owners who lost everything in the end. While alluring and exciting, it is rather frustrating as there is very little facts or dates to back any of it up. A lot of the information is very blurry, so i decided to focus on my husband's maternal great-grandfather who appears to have served in the Royal Navy and so far debunked the myth of him being an Admiral or a Captain that floated around in the family. Unfortunately, most of that side of the family passed away, so gathering information is extremely difficult, but i will try to cover the naval granddad's story as short as i can. This gentleman is an utter mystery and i feel like Sherlock Holmes trying to unravel his life story with deduction.
Photos in Uniform: Link Imgur
Name/Last Name: Harry Thompson
Middle Names: Unknown, does not appear on his daughters Baptism papers, appears as just “Harry Thompson”. This is the only document i have of him plus photos.
Date of Birth: Unknown. Most likely somewhere in uk. Possible range of 1982-1912.
Date of Death: Unknown. But definitely before 1957 (as the entire family up and left Egypt for England (Suez Crisis is my guess - the family is not big on history so they just told me they got “expelled” from Egypt). His wife married again apparently after his death. She married again either in Egypt or in UK. My best bet (see explanation below) would be on late 1930's to early-mid 1940's.
Nationality: British subject (possibly of Scottish origin, as the family said he was Scottish, however it is unknown if he lived there or just had Scottish blood).
Military: as far as i could find out, Royal Navy, served in WWI as per a thread on /r/Militariacollecting and corroborating replies to a thread on Ancestry boards.
Rank (based on the uniform - cap, collar, sleeve, medal ribbons):
- The star and O.S. insignia on his collar of a Royal Navy Officer's Steward, this was introduced after 1931.(source: reply on ancestry thread, corroborated with by own research into the star on the collar)
- His single "bootlace" half stripe on his sleeve cuff shows he's a Warrant Officer-Steward. Warrant Steward - supervision of work of Stewards and administration of Wardroom Mess services to give an improved standard in large shore establishments. (source: same threads) Stationed in: Alexandria, Al Iskandariyah, Egypt. (Certain, as his daughter was born and baptised there:https://imgur.com/a/9p8Zk ) sometime between 1890-1957. His rank would imply that he did not serve on a ship, but rather on a shore establishment, which they still prefixed with HMS, despite it being a naval base. I’ve looked into shore establishments in Alexandria at that time period, and it’s safe to say it would have been HMS Nile (more likely as per his timeline) or HMS Mosquito.
Medal Ribbons: (identified by two different users on two different websites, both with same answers, so good certainty there)
- Bottom - RN Long Service and Good Conduct (RN-Royal Navy)
- Top - 1914-15 Star, WW1 British War Medal, and WW1 Victory Medal
Issue: Lydia Amelia Thompson (Married Joannides, later married Beach) & Theresa Joannides (un-identical twins, born on same day) DOB: 4 Aug 1934 Alexandria, Egypt. Lydia's DOD: 24 Sep 2009, Italy. (Lived in UK from 1957 until a lot later in her life) Theresa's DOD: 29 November 1979, London, UK
Marriage factoid: It is rumoured that he was ~20 years older than Mary Camilleri.
Spouse: Mary/Maria Camilleri (Listed as ?Fausta? on their daughters baptism, however her UK Death record (i do not posses the certificate itself yet). B: 19 Apr 1912 in Milano, Lombardia, Italy (questionable, could be Sicily, date however is a definite). D: 7 Jun 1993 in Fulham, London, UK. Fausta could be her middle name as homage to her father Gustav(e) Camilleri who also died in London in Nov 1960. She had a second husband who appears to have also died in Alexandria, his name was Elio Rousso, he appears to have died prior to family coming over to UK, however he had children with Mary who also came to UK.
The deduction theory used to find out his rough period of service/life:
The OS insignia was not in circulation until 1931, his daughter was born in 1934, in 1957 the family left for England without him and his wife without her new husband who she appears to have married in Egypt. He was also yet again a lot older than his wife. His wife had two children with her new husband around 1930-1950(he died around 1950) This gives me a…
Life period of sometime from ~1892 to 1937-1950.
The family that came over and lived together in UK shortly after as per Electoral Register of 1960:
Lydia Thompson (daughter) - “Joannides” at the time of moving to UK in 1957. This is where my husbands Greek DNA comes from.
George Joannides - Lydia’s Husband (moved to UK with family, but didn’t live with them)
Theresa Thompson (daughter)
Gustav Camilleri (Harry’s wife’s parent)
Giovanna Maria Camilleri (Harry’s wife’s parent) - Maria Giovanna also possible. (Died 1965, Camberwell, London)
Mary/Maria Fausta? Camilleri who has now become Rousso, maiden name unknown. (Wife)
Mary+New Husban's Daughter
Mary+New Husbands Son
*Disclaimer: *All people mentioned in the post are now deceased. Any records of living descendants implied in this post are open to the public.
Where i looked: British Consulate Records, Naval Medal Rolls (there’s just too many Harry Thompsons to pin him down and looking for rank, country, or shore establishment yielded no results), British subjects born overseas, Incoming Passengers to UK (which go until 1960) etc, etc… none of the family appear on any records there. I have worldwide ancestry subscription and i currently have a “world” running trial on findmypast. Checked variations and tons of records there to no avail.
What else can i do at this point to push through this brick wall? Did i miss something or did i not make a connection somewhere where i could have? What other avenues could i explore to get past this? This has now become something of an obsession, i am not the type to leave a project half finished and this is killing me every time i think of possibilities i could have once i get past it.
Thank you for reading and any input you could provide!Here’s the promised ultra-diverse DNA result snap.https://imgur.com/a/Yh3E6 Interesting fact, on MyHeritage his DNA shows Italian, while Ancestry missed it. Camilleri is the Italian line in the family.
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