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Family Tree Help Please - Frank & Mary Connor

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  • Family Tree Help Please - Frank & Mary Connor

    Hello all,

    I wondered if I could have some help /guidance as I've hit a bit of a brick wall.
    Right, well after 10 years, a marriage & 3 children I have decided to try tracing my elusive family once again!
    I have spent a few weeks retracing my steps and putting together what I can but I am none the wiser when it comes to my grandfather.

    The information I have so is as follows:

    Frank (Francis?) Joseph Connor.
    Married Mary Shannon in 1941, Hendon.

    Frank Joseph Connor was 27 on their wedding day (1941) and Mary was 23, this would mean that Mary was born in 1918 whereas I have her birth certificate saying that she was born in 1912. I guess she was a little flexible with her age when meeting Frank. ;)

    Her fathers name was Michael Shannon and he was a coal miner.
    Frank Connors dad was called yup you guessed it, Frank Connor he was also a coal miner. Both were deceased at the time of the marriage.
    It makes it all very confusing with everyone having the same name!
    The two witnesses were Mary's sister and brother, Katherine Shannon and Michael Shannon. They all lived in South Harrow.

    So where do you suggest I go from her then?

    Look for a Frank Connor born in 1918?


    My dad said that he scarpered around the time of the marriage, it was said that he went to war but he may have just disappeared and the war thing was just a cover. Interestingly enough I have found the electoral roll at 61 Eastcote Avenue , South Harrow for 1950 living there was Mary Connor, Catherine Shannon, John Shannon and Michael Shannon (Mary's brothers and sisters). The same group were there in 1949 too, except Catherine is down as Kitty and in 1947 too but just Mary Kitty and Michael. No sign of Frank Connor at all? It may be a long shot, but interestingly there is a Frank J Connor living just under 4 miles away from South Harrow in Harrow Weald according to the electoral rolls from 1946 to 1953 with a Mary McGovern. In 1949 there are also a Chriss (yes with 2 S's) and a Phillip[ McGovern at 798 Kenton Lane, in addition to Frank and Mary. Potential here maybe?

    My dad also thinks that his dad Frank Connor was originally from Lancashire, possibly Manchester?

    Other than this I'm drawing a blank and I really don't know where to go from here.

    I'm very intrigued about my dad's father and his family so would like to go down that road if at all possible. Struggling somewhat with the limited info at the moment and would love to share any findings with my dad.


    Any advice would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.

    Nick

  • #2
    Welcome to FTF.

    Yes, you need to find a birth for Frank/Francis around 1918. You can look here http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ for free or if you have a subscription to ancestry or find my past the indexes are available there. What you get from that search is a reference for ordering a certificate, it gives name of birth registered, mother's maiden name, quarter & year in which registered, volume number and page number.

    The problem will be if there are lots of births for that name since you don't know where he was born.

    Have you looked on ancestry or anywhere else to see if anyone else has the names you are looking for in a published tree? GenesReunited also has trees.

    I have found Mary in the 1939 National Register 61 Eastcote Avenue , Harrow U.D., Middlesex, England
    Mary Connor (Shannon) 06 Mar 1912 Female Unpaid Light Home Duties Single
    John Shannon 13 Jul 1905 Male Plasterer Single
    Michael Shannon 10 Sep 1919 Male Electric Welder Single
    Kitty Shannon 04 Dec 1909 Female Factory Hand (Packer) Single

    There is one name in the household that has been redacted as born after 1916 and before 1939 and not yet deceased.

    Just going to see if I can find Frank in 1939.

    Margaret

    Comment


    • #3
      There is a tree on ancestry http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/40...86623560/facts owned by Francis Connor and it has Mary Shannon in it and a second wife for Frank Connor b1914 - it has a death for him in 2001 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.

      Best join and make contact.

      Margaret

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like a couple of Irish families here... incidentally I have found a possible birth for a Francis:


        Name: Francis J Connor
        Mother's Maiden Surname: Marren
        Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
        Registration district: Lanchester [could this be misheard for Lancaster?]
        Inferred County: Durham
        Volume Number: 10a
        Page Number: 466

        I do realise that it is early days yet and that the one I have given might not be him. need to see if we can either find a likely remarriage or death for him.. maybe even service recs.
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
          Sounds like a couple of Irish families here... incidentally I have found a possible birth for a Francis:


          Name: Francis J Connor
          Mother's Maiden Surname: Marren
          Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
          Registration district: Lanchester [could this be misheard for Lancaster?]
          Inferred County: Durham
          Volume Number: 10a
          Page Number: 466

          I do realise that it is early days yet and that the one I have given might not be him. need to see if we can either find a likely remarriage or death for him.. maybe even service recs.
          The one in the ancestry tree is shown as born 06 DEC 1914 • Rochdale and they do have Mary Shannon as a wife but no sources so I guess family knowledge. I think the poster will have to contact the ancestry tree owner for information as it certainly looks as if they have the right family.

          Margaret

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
            Sounds like a couple of Irish families here... incidentally I have found a possible birth for a Francis:


            Name: Francis J Connor
            Mother's Maiden Surname: Marren
            Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
            Registration district: Lanchester [could this be misheard for Lancaster?]
            Inferred County: Durham
            Volume Number: 10a
            Page Number: 466

            I do realise that it is early days yet and that the one I have given might not be him. need to see if we can either find a likely remarriage or death for him.. maybe even service recs.
            Lanchester is in County Durham and the main occupation at that time would have been coal mining.

            Sounds promising, perhaps, Julie

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's the WW1 record for Frank Connor - father t the one we are looking for http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/11...&usePUBJs=true

              This matches with the tree on ancestry that has the posters grandmother in it.

              Margaret

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's the other ancestry tree http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/62...83608103/facts
                where they are unsure of the birth date but do have Frank Joseph and Mary Shannon with marriage source.

                The birth reg from GRO that matches with the mother's maiden name in these trees is
                CONNOR, FRANK MMN: FRAMES
                GRO Reference: 1914 D Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 113

                The mother's name of Frames and the date of birth ^ Dec 1914 matches that shown on the WW1 record for Frank Connor senior shown above.

                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                  There is a tree on ancestry http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/40...86623560/facts owned by Francis Connor and it has Mary Shannon in it and a second wife for Frank Connor b1914 - it has a death for him in 2001 in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.

                  Best join and make contact.

                  Margaret
                  Thank you very much for your help Margaret, its much appreciated!

                  You mention that it has Mary Shannon in the above family tree as well as Francis Connor but I cant see her at all? Am I being blind? :o

                  Thanks again.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                    Here's the other ancestry tree http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/62...83608103/facts
                    where they are unsure of the birth date but do have Frank Joseph and Mary Shannon with marriage source.

                    The birth reg from GRO that matches with the mother's maiden name in these trees is
                    CONNOR, FRANK MMN: FRAMES
                    GRO Reference: 1914 D Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 113

                    The mother's name of Frames and the date of birth ^ Dec 1914 matches that shown on the WW1 record for Frank Connor senior shown above.

                    Margaret
                    Hi Margaret,

                    The above family tree is the tree that I put together a number of years ago, I had forgot that I did it! That's what 3 children do to you I guess. I'm not sure how much validity it holds on the Frank Connor side of the family as I took a lot of the info from the family tree mentioned in your post at the beginning of the thread if my memory serves me right. I guess that's why I wanted to start afresh with the info I am sure of. Apologies for the confusion but I had forgotten that it existed until now.

                    Nick

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think you need to contact the tree owner to ask if they can help you with your search. It would appear they are half blood to you though so may have some family information that would help.

                      You also now need to look at the finds by other members and see what you think as to whether they could be your grandfather.

                      Margaret

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                        I think you need to contact the tree owner to ask if they can help you with your search. It would appear they are half blood to you though so may have some family information that would help.

                        You also now need to look at the finds by other members and see what you think as to whether they could be your grandfather.

                        Margaret

                        Thanks Margaret, much appreciated.

                        Having spoken to my father last night I'm not sure the family tree mentioned is a relation after all as he believes that his father died many years ago. He recalls some letters that he found as a child in a cupboard. They were from Manchester and they were all apologising for his dad's ( Frank Connor) behaviour, again suggesting that he upped and left and was with someone else. My dad 'thinks' they may have been from an Annie and Eric?
                        He also believes that Frank Connor died around late 50's maybe? His aunt Catherine (Kitty) sorted out a pension etc and was able to arrange for my dad's mum Mary to receive money as a result of his death?
                        These are all very hazy and distant memories for my dad, but might be something in it to work with?

                        The hunt continues........

                        Thanks again, Nick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NickC76 View Post
                          Thanks Margaret, much appreciated.

                          Having spoken to my father last night I'm not sure the family tree mentioned is a relation after all as he believes that his father died many years ago. He recalls some letters that he found as a child in a cupboard. They were from Manchester and they were all apologising for his dad's ( Frank Connor) behaviour, again suggesting that he upped and left and was with someone else. My dad 'thinks' they may have been from an Annie and Eric?
                          He also believes that Frank Connor died around late 50's maybe? His aunt Catherine (Kitty) sorted out a pension etc and was able to arrange for my dad's mum Mary to receive money as a result of his death?
                          These are all very hazy and distant memories for my dad, but might be something in it to work with?

                          The hunt continues........

                          Thanks again, Nick
                          I would still contact the tree owner to find out why they think their Frank J Connor is the same as yours - there may be family knowledge that you would not find in the records.

                          If nothing else you might want to get them to take your grandmother (and your father) off their tree!

                          Margaret

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello again, well I've done some more digging..... having looked at some old info I collected I think I may have indeed found the right Frank Connor.
                            On the marriage certificate his address is 345a Northolt Road. Profession is mechanical engineer. The witnesses are Michael and kitty shannon, Mary's (Frank's wife, my grandmother) brother and sister.

                            I had some info someone on WDYTYA kindly provided and there is a Francis Connor in Harrow with the Baldwin family in 1939.

                            1939- 87 Sherwood Road , Harrow U.D., Middlesex, England
                            Francis Connor, 30 Sep 1913, Male, Engineers Turner, Single, 263, 6
                            http://search.findmypast.com/record?id= ... 2F019%2F43

                            He appears to have died in 1975.
                            England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
                            Name: Francis Joseph Connor
                            Event Type: Death
                            Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
                            Registration Year: 1975
                            Registration District: Tameside
                            County: Lancashire
                            Event Place: Tameside, Lancashire, England
                            Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969): 30 Sep 1913
                            Volume: 39
                            Page: 1820
                            Line Number: 108
                            Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                            Looks pretty good to me? It's his name, South Harrow, correct year of birth and the Lancashire connection.....

                            Thanks again, nick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NickC76 View Post
                              Hello again, well I've done some more digging..... having looked at some old info I collected I think I may have indeed found the right Frank Connor.
                              On the marriage certificate his address is 345a Northolt Road. Profession is mechanical engineer. The witnesses are Michael and kitty shannon, Mary's (Frank's wife, my grandmother) brother and sister.

                              I had some info someone on WDYTYA kindly provided and there is a Francis Connor in Harrow with the Baldwin family in 1939.

                              1939- 87 Sherwood Road , Harrow U.D., Middlesex, England
                              Francis Connor, 30 Sep 1913, Male, Engineers Turner, Single, 263, 6
                              http://search.findmypast.com/record?id= ... 2F019%2F43

                              He appears to have died in 1975.
                              England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
                              Name: Francis Joseph Connor
                              Event Type: Death
                              Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
                              Registration Year: 1975
                              Registration District: Tameside
                              County: Lancashire
                              Event Place: Tameside, Lancashire, England
                              Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969): 30 Sep 1913
                              Volume: 39
                              Page: 1820
                              Line Number: 108
                              Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                              Looks pretty good to me? It's his name, South Harrow, correct year of birth and the Lancashire connection.....

                              Thanks again, nick
                              Yes, that does look good but did you find his birth and thus leads to his parents?

                              Margaret

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Looking on the GRO website at the birth certificates I have found the following


                                CONNOR, FRANK* * *mothers*maiden*name:BOOTH* ***Order
                                GRO Reference: 1913* D Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE* Volume 08D* Page 927

                                It's frank rather than Francis, the year of birth ties up and Ashton under Lyne is in Tameside. Looks pretty good doesn't it?

                                I've also had a look at the mother's surname of booth and found the following....

                                First name(s)ELIZABETHLast nameBOOTHMarriage quarter4Marriage year1890Registration month-MarriageFinder[TRADE MARK SIGN]ELIZABETH BOOTH married one of these people
                                Thomas Dawber, Francis ConnorDistrictWiganDistrict number-CountyLancashireCountryEnglandVolume8CPage112

                                http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?i ... 0036%2f189

                                Granted its in Wigan but it's only 40 mins from Ashton under Lyne. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself as my Grandad was born in 1913 so this would be 23 years after they married, a bit of a stretch?

                                I've since looked at the 1911 census and found the following, looking for an Elizabeth married to a Francis, in Wigan where Francis has the profession of coal miner as per marriage certificate.



                                First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
                                Francis Connor Head Married Male Coal Miner Coal Getter Below Ground 41 1870 Wigan Lancs
                                Elizabeth Connor Wife Married Female - 41 1870 Wigan Lancs
                                James William Connor Son Single Male Coal Miner Coal Getter Below Ground 20 1891 Wigan Lancs
                                Marggeret Connor Daughter Single Female Cotton Mill Cardroom 14 1897 Wigan Lancs
                                Annie Connor Daughter Single Female - 11 1900 Wigan Lancs
                                Mary Connor Daughter Single Female - 9 1902 Plank Lanc Near Leigh Lancs
                                Ellen Connor Daughter Single Female - 6 1905 Plank Lanc Near Leigh Lancs
                                Elizabeth Connor Daughter Single Female - 2 1909 Plank Lanc Near Leigh Lancs
                                Frances Connor Daughter Single Female - 0 1911 Plank Lanc Near Leigh Lancs

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  The District of Leigh is North of Manchester whereas Ashton under Lyne is east and slightly south so I don't think it can be the family you have in the 1911. I doubt a miner would move with all those children to Ashton between 1911 and 1913.

                                  40 mins from Wigan to Ashton U Lyne is by car and in those days they would be unlikely to have one. I don't think this family matches the birth you have found.

                                  Have you tried to find anyone matching the Annie and Eric that comes up from memory?

                                  Margaret
                                  Last edited by margaretmarch; 23-02-17, 09:04.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi Margaret, on the scanned image the postal address on the 1911 census is in Ashton under Lyne - 17 hill street, Ashton under Lyne, so looks like they were already living there.

                                    With regards to Annie and Eric, there is an Annie in the census down as a sister, so potentially that could've been her? Haven't found an Eddie.

                                    Thanks for your feedback. Good to talk things through with someone.

                                    Nick

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by NickC76 View Post
                                      Hi Margaret, on the scanned image the postal address on the 1911 census is in Ashton under Lyne - 17 hill street, Ashton under Lyne, so looks like they were already living there.

                                      With regards to Annie and Eric, there is an Annie in the census down as a sister, so potentially that could've been her? Haven't found an Eddie.

                                      Thanks for your feedback. Good to talk things through with someone.

                                      Nick
                                      Right. The address in Ashton under Lyne did not show in your transcript!

                                      But in the light of that then this family look good. I would trace down the Annie line to see what happens. She perhaps married an Eric?

                                      Margaret

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Okay thanks Annie, I'll pursue that route now then. I appreciate your guidance!

                                        Do you think that it's worth purchasing Frank Connor jnrs birth certificate mentioned above? Would it confirm things a little more? Or should I save my pennies?

                                        Thanks Nick

                                        Comment

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