Search for Grandfather's records.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Parker, it's still not clear to me whether you are trying to work back with James Parker, or forward with William.

[Parker]

Thanks. I have the original physical copy. Its shows that my father was born in Ireland and still regarded it as his home in 1924 when he enlisted. But research shows his father to be English and his mother Irish. Hence the spat about 1921 or 1926 Census information. Quite simply, I'm searching backwards and sideways. We're getting there.

[Parker]

Both, Elaine. I have off-record family information about my father William's path. But until recently, I was in the dark about his father, James. Family handed-down belief is that he married twice, resulting in at least a half-sister for my father, if not more. I cannot find detail of Rachel Parker's [nee Graham] death. From my father's marriage certificate, it seems James was alive and employed as a 60 year-old or thereabouts. I'm obviously interested in pinning this detail down and in finding out more about my paternal grandmother Rachel and her family.

[Janet]

There are many people who have accessed their Irish roots without recourse to the 1921 census, me included, back to 1798 which is about as far back as you will get with Irish Records, though with using specialist name sites, DNA testing and reading widely the Irish newspapers and other documens, you cah get back further.

So my Great Grandfather was born in England, joined the army serving at the Curragh and married an Irish girl but married at her home address in Fermoy, a protestant church although she was a catholic. One child born Ireland before returning to England.

So you need the marriage certificate, which record you will find easily through FMP as he was getting married whilst in the army? That will give you parents' names to research further back in Ireland. Then get the army records from FMP/Ancestry and if you are lucky you will find children's birth certs included in the army records, which is what I found on a Great Uncle who served in First W War. If you want to come forward with relatives in Second W War then you will need to apply for Service Records, cost £30 and proof of next of kin. Some of my father's records are available up to 1920 at TNA or online at Ancestry as he joined the Navy at Cobh in 1919. The rest of his records until 1945 are still with the MOD and I had to pay to access them.

Unfortunately, we all have to wait the allotted time until records are available, but much can still be done whilst you are waiting.

Janet

[Janet]

A PS

Family information is just that, family information, which some of us call Family Myths! I have much family information with much proved wrong once I had cerificates and other information gleaned from census newspapers and other sources!


Janet

[Parker]

Thanks Janet. It's late here and I can't do your comment justice. But I know it will help. Let me use your advice and keep in touch. I'm an ex-soldier myself so am familiar with military eccentricities. I must delve around pre-1911 sources.

[Karamazov]

Both, Elaine. I have off-record family information about my father William's path. But until recently, I was in the dark about his father, James. Family handed-down belief is that he married twice, resulting in at least a half-sister for my father, if not more. I cannot find detail of Rachel Parker's [nee Graham] death. From my father's marriage certificate, it seems James was alive and employed as a 60 year-old or thereabouts. I'm obviously interested in pinning this detail down and in finding out more about my paternal grandmother Rachel and her family.

I think this is Rachel's death:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1931/04905/4330061.pdf

And James's second marriage:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1932/09010/5260669.pdf

Christine

[Katarzyna]

Have you any idea from family hearsay where in England James might have been born? James choose to raise his family in Ireland but his father would be in England. Is that correct?

[Parker]

Hello Kat. It was the Manchester area. I don't think there were any Parkers left in Ireland by the time I came along in mid-40s. I think at least Uncle Ernest [never met him] was in Lancashire in the 50s/perhaps 60s. I suspect James completed a full military career but that would not have involved Ireland after 1916 independence.

[Parker]

Christine, those are real break-throughs, with loads of new information that ties up with family oral history. Many thanks. I can now investigate the great-grandfather generation through John Parker and Thomas Wilson, as well as the second marriage of James Parker and Mary Wilson and their hearsay progeny [she was 14 years younger than him.]

[Katarzyna]

I think I may have found James with father John on 1901 census. What do you think? John as an Iron Labourer rather than an engineer.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
225, Belle Green Lane, Ince in Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Parker Head Married Male 52 1849 Iron Labourer Staffordshire, England
Alice Parker Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Ireland
James Parker Son Single Male 26 1875 Soldier (Laucs Fus) Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Parker Son Single Male 24 1877 Iron Labourer Wigan, Lancashire, England
Samuel Parker Son Single Male 19 1882 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Mary A Parker Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Waitress Public House Wigan, Lancashire, England
William Hudson Boarder Single Male 45 1856 Iron Labourer Wolverhampton, Staffordshire,

[Katarzyna]

If so then this is the marriage I think:

Marriages Sep 1872
O'Neil Alice Wigan 8c 167
PARKER John Wigan 8c 167

Births:
PARKER, JAMES O'NIEL
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 25
PARKER, JOHN O'NIEL
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 27
PARKER, JOHN THOMAS O. NEIL
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 11
PARKER, SAMUEL O'NEIL
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 13
PARKER, WILLIAM O'NEIL
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 18
PARKER, MARY ANN O'NEIL
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 19

[Parker]

Don't think so Kat. I've no dependable research background on the Parkers but there is sufficient on James Parker [my grandfather] now to suggest he was born in 1884 [confirmed by his two marriage certificates.] If he was born in 1875 [26 year-old during 1901 Census], this wouldn't correlate. Also, he was a gunner [Royal Field Artillery] according to his first marriage certificate, not a Lancashire Fusilier.
If father John was born in 1848, working in Staffordshire, he is unlikely to be the same John Parker, described as an Chief Engineer on SMS Empress of China on James' second marriage certificate in 1932. The iron labourer John Parker would have been 84 at the time.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Small point - just because a father is not described as deceased on a marriage certificate doesn't mean he was alive! You are asked the name of your father and his occupation. For registration purposes it is irrelevant whether or not he is still alive and not all vicars or registrars asked the question.

OC

[Katarzyna]

Oh well never mind. The wife Alice was a widow on 1911 census and there is a death for John 1906. ( btw Born Staffs not working there)
Keep on searching

[Parker]

Thanks. But not pertinent to the above conversation.

[Parker]

Thanks Kat. I think I'll get further '4th generation' information on the Parker line shortly. Nothing wrong with Staffordshire - have two close friends, both ex-Staffordshire Regiment.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Parker

If you google Empress of China there is quite a bit of information, including a photo of the crew (no names unfortunately, but you might spot a family likeness). The E of C had a very short life and that fact may help your further research.

There were two later E o Cs but both were foreign owned although of course your ggf could have signed on, no reason why not.

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

When and where did your Grandfather James Parker die please? I see that he and Mary are living at 10, Conway Road, Urmston in 1939.

[Katarzyna]

1939

James Parker 30 Mar 1884 Male Warrant Officer County Cooks Married 71 1
Mary A Parker 16 Jun 1898 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
10 Conway Road , Urmston U.D., Lancashire, England

Edit Snap Chrissie