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Help tracking down mysterious Ashman

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  • #21
    I think it's dangerous to draw conclusions! These foster parents may have been wonderful people or they may just have been in it for the money and the free labour..or any scenario in between the two extremes. However I do think that if they were wonderful people he would have talked about them and kept in touch with them, which he evidently didn't.

    He may have "finished his education" but if that information was self reported it may not be true!

    Maybe it was these people he ran away from, aged 12and not his parents.

    OC

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
      I think it's dangerous to draw conclusions! These foster parents may have been wonderful people or they may just have been in it for the money and the free labour..or any scenario in between the two extremes. However I do think that if they were wonderful people he would have talked about them and kept in touch with them, which he evidently didn't.

      He may have "finished his education" but if that information was self reported it may not be true!

      Maybe it was these people he ran away from, aged 12and not his parents.

      OC
      Very true, not drawing conclusions though, just throwing hypothesis and thoughts out there - spitballing, as the saying goes! :P He did say specifically in later years, though, that it was his real parents that he ran away from. I definitely want to find out more about this family he stayed with - perhaps he didn't know them but was placed with them as a foster child, and maybe I can find out if they ever fostered other children. You never know what an unexpected road you might be led down.

      Speaking of...there probably are no records I could find about him, official papers regarding him being a foster child? I am definitely going to buy his SS-5 later this month, and hope that they have it, and even if it takes six months, my family has been looking for these answers for years. A few months won't hurt.
      Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

      Comment


      • #23
        I think your best bet is to follow photo family,s advice and pursue the LDS angle. If he was a lifelong Mormon then they are very likely to have information on him and it is very unlikely that he would lie in any way to them. It could even be that the church organised his fostering.

        My guess is that he was probably illegitimate. People were so ashamed back then, they would go to any lengths to conceal the fact. Sorry I can't be more helpful but I am not familiar with USA research.

        OC

        Comment


        • #24
          Olde Crone, you've been very helpful. Just hearing other people's thoughts is helpful. I hadn't considered the possibility he was illegitimate! That opens up plenty of hypothesis. Who knows, he could even have been born from an adulterous affair or something sundry like that.

          I'm definitely going to look into the LDS angle and I look forward to seeing what might come of it.
          Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by SunHoney View Post
            Thank you Sylvia. I've been trying to dig through Eschmanns and the whole lot of them! but it's slow work, definitely. Family Search does a lot of that work automatically at least.



            Really? I've never heard that! Interesting. The son was Mormon though. Not to say he couldn't have converted but I'm almost positive he was born into it. I wouldn't know the father's occupation, all I have on him is the name and birth place, along with his wife's birth place. As for the son, he was in the military until his injury in France around 1918, so at times he was unemployed. It's also said he already had a previous disability and had claimed exemption from military though it wasn't granted.

            From 1930 until retirement he worked as a school janitor. A relative said that wasn't an uncommon occupation for someone with a disability.

            I have a couple other descriptions of his work earlier on but I've never been able to understand the handwriting. Perhaps I can share and you might be able to decipher it?

            This WWI card looks as though it says he was Foreman for "Phoemax" ?? "Con. Co Terminal" http://imgur.com/Q7XvhFq

            This war service question looks as though it's saying something like "Bussing at Phoenix Station"? http://imgur.com/ik0yJcS

            ???? possibly

            Bussing (clearing and wiping) tables in the diner/cafe or whatever at Phoenix Bus or Train Station.
            My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

            Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

            Comment


            • #26
              My g'grandfather's SS5 was a genealogist's prize. He had filled it out himself, with his parents' names and his POB (unfortunately, only county and country, no town). And he had signed it - it's the only item I have in his writing. He must have been one of the oldest/earliest applicants for an SSN - he was born in 1863.

              I think every FTF member would point out that the information on any document is only as good as the informant knew at the time of the event, and was willing to report honestly. So, for instance, if the informant on the DC only knew what Herald had told him, but Herald was not giving out the correct information - then the DC info would be incorrect. And so on. Which means that your best source is the person to whom the information relates, hopefully while their brain is still fully functional (e.g., I have a many g'grandfather who misnames his mother and instead names his aunt as his mother).

              Not sure how formal a fostering system there was at the turn of the century.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                My g'grandfather's SS5 was a genealogist's prize. He had filled it out himself, with his parents' names and his POB (unfortunately, only county and country, no town). And he had signed it - it's the only item I have in his writing. He must have been one of the oldest/earliest applicants for an SSN - he was born in 1863.

                I think every FTF member would point out that the information on any document is only as good as the informant knew at the time of the event, and was willing to report honestly. So, for instance, if the informant on the DC only knew what Herald had told him, but Herald was not giving out the correct information - then the DC info would be incorrect. And so on. Which means that your best source is the person to whom the information relates, hopefully while their brain is still fully functional (e.g., I have a many g'grandfather who misnames his mother and instead names his aunt as his mother).

                Not sure how formal a fostering system there was at the turn of the century.
                It's funny, his closest relatives still alive are my grandfather and my great-uncle, his brother. And I've discovered a couple things I didn't know. Funny how that works out, for example one of my grandmothers always claimed she was 18 when she had her first child - but once I found my aunt's birth cert., along with my grandma's, accompanied by the marriage certificate...she was in fact 15 when she was pregnant, and barely 16 when she was married. Which of course my grandfather knew (he's still alive, she's passed away) but he kept up the charade that she was 18 - for obvious reasons. So that quite surprised everyone!

                As for handwriting, I do have plenty in my g'grandfather's writing. My grandpa has a massive trunk filled to the brim with family documents and photos. So this includes the most random things, like his car registration, and insurance, and things of that nature. He also has photos dating way, way back (on the other side of the family), some photos on tin and metal they are so old! I have to get back home at some point and scan it all
                Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                Comment


                • #28
                  New info, would love to know what you all think:

                  I *just* received this from a very kind friend on a Facebook group. She discovered this 1905 Iowa State Census with a Herald E. Ashman. Doesn't seem likely there'd be a ton of Herald E. Ashmans running around - unusual spelling of Harold, and uncommon last name, not to mention same middle initial.

                  Let's say this is him, for argument's sake. He would have been 17 yrs old, living in Iowa for some reason, either living with his parents again OR could this be family - an uncle, aunt? What do you all think of this? I haven't found him on a 1910 census yet, just 1900 then skips to 1920. So I wonder what additional clue that census would give.

                  I'll transcribe the info, the image is hard to read. No ages or anything helpful like that, of course.

                  Name: Herald E Ashman
                  Residence Date: 1905
                  Residence Place: Scott, Mahaska, Iowa, USA


                  Household Members:

                  Tha's E Ashman
                  Mary J Ashman
                  Herald E Ashman
                  John W Ashman
                  Mary J Ashman
                  Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by SunHoney View Post
                    He wasn't widowed actually, they divorced at some point and he lived as a lodger somewhere for a year or two then married my great-grandmother. He was 31, she was 16. All around weird situation to me.
                    And do you have the divorce transcript - the actual court proceedings, not just the declarative document? They probably still exist, barring courthouse burnings, etc.

                    Are you the person with the public tree with him on Ancestry?

                    Link to locating an FHC
                    Find a FamilySearch center or affiliate location. Get access to personalized help, technology, and exclusive resources to aid your family history journey.


                    Not sure if they're still doing it, but they used to offer online expert help.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      1910, laborer on the railroad. Note that his age is very difficult to read, and that he says his mother was born in Iowa. However, I mistrust records for a large group of unrelated people. Sometimes someone else is answering and gets it wrong. I think that enumerators also transcribed information for the final forms.



                      Edward Ashman
                      [Edward Ashnan]
                      Age in 1910: 27
                      [21]
                      Birth Year: abt 1883
                      [abt 1889]
                      Birthplace: Oregon
                      Home in 1910: Cheyenne Ward 1, Laramie, Wyoming
                      Street: In Bank Cars Union Pacific RR Yards Cheyenne Step
                      Race: White
                      Gender: Male
                      Relation to Head of House: Lodger
                      Marital Status: Single
                      Father's Birthplace: Ohio
                      Mother's Birthplace: Iowa
                      Native Tongue: English
                      Occupation: Laborer
                      Industry: Railroad
                      Last edited by PhotoFamily; 20-11-16, 00:48.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        OK, I'm liking this a lot. He stayed with Thomas E Ashman in the 1905. Here's Thomas in the 1910
                        Name: Thomas D Ashman
                        [Thomas G Ashman]
                        Age in 1910: 34
                        Birth Year: abt 1876
                        Birthplace: Iowa
                        Home in 1910: Garfield, Mahaska, Iowa
                        Race: White
                        Gender: Male
                        Relation to Head of House: Head
                        Marital Status: Married
                        Spouse's Name: Mary J Ashman
                        Father's Birthplace: Ohio
                        Mother's Birthplace: Wales
                        Native Tongue: English
                        Occupation: Coal Mining
                        Industry: Coal Mine



                        Lookie, Dad was born in Ohio. Mom in Wales. Lookie again - Mary Ashman in Iowa in 1910, born in Wales:
                        Name: Mary Ashman
                        Age in 1910: 60
                        Birth Year: abt 1850
                        Birthplace: Wales
                        Home in 1910: Colfax Ward 3, Jasper, Iowa
                        Street: Spring Street
                        Race: White
                        Immigration Year: 1865
                        [1862]
                        Relation to Head of House: Head
                        Marital Status: Widowed
                        Father's Birthplace: Wales
                        Mother's Birthplace: Wales
                        Native Tongue: English
                        Occupation: Laundress



                        Don't get too excited yet. Still checking, but perhaps Thomas was Herald's uncle?

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Sylvia C View Post
                          ???? possibly

                          Bussing (clearing and wiping) tables in the diner/cafe or whatever at Phoenix Bus or Train Station.
                          Americanisms: Bossing definition, a person who employs or superintends workers; manager.

                          Phoenix Con Co was Phoenix Construction Company
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Still liking it. Mary is married in the 1880, living with spouse William. Some of their kids were born in Ohio
                            Ancestry® helps you understand your genealogy. A family tree takes you back generations—the world's largest collection of online family history records makes it easy to trace your lineage.


                            Name: Wm. Ashman
                            Age: 36
                            Birth Year: abt 1844
                            Birthplace: Wales
                            Home in 1880: Machacinoe Settlement, Mahaska, Iowa
                            Race: White
                            Gender: Male
                            Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
                            Marital Status: Married
                            Spouse's Name: Mary Ashman
                            Father's Birthplace: England
                            Mother's Birthplace: Wales

                            It might be a case of proving the negative. Their eldest child William still living with them is age 9 in the 1880 census. That would mean he'd need to be a father by age 17 - not impossible, but...
                            One way to prove it would be to build out a tree for the family.

                            And of course, William Ashman might be the uncle

                            here's the census record on FS,
                            Last edited by PhotoFamily; 20-11-16, 01:03.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              William Sr in the 1900 census.


                              or


                              Mary says she's mother of 9, 8 living, and they've been married 30 years. So, William Jr is most likely her eldest child. Haven't tried to trace him, but I think you've got a good start on a project.

                              William's brother Thomas is living with them, born PA.
                              Last edited by PhotoFamily; 20-11-16, 01:08.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Hmm, Thomas Ashman in the 1900, living Mahaska Iowa (same Thomas, right?) also has a son Harold

                                but born in 1898

                                OK, that 1910 record for Harold E Ashman is the wrong one! He too is Thomas's son.

                                I still like this family, tho, as a possible connection to your HEA

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  What a good thought to create a separate small tree for this family. Could really help sketch them out and might lead to finding family connections that lead to my family. Back then there was something like 1,800 Ashman's in the entire country. Then add the same initials...it's definitely not impossible there's a connection somehow
                                  Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Just in case it was lost in the flurry - is the tree on ancestry yours, or one you already know about?

                                    Hmm, yes, and recruiting someone from that family to DNA test if you can't find paper records to connect your families...
                                    Last edited by PhotoFamily; 20-11-16, 01:27.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                                      Just in case it was lost in the flurry - is the tree on ancestry yours, or one you already know about?

                                      Hmm, yes, and recruiting someone from that family to DNA test if you can't find paper records to connect your families...
                                      oh i'm not sure if mines public! it should have the username missuswells if it's me
                                      Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Wow, that all looks very promising! Well found, PF.

                                        OC

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I looked for a FHC and there's one less than 10 from me. i am SO excited to go there!!
                                          Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

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