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  • Marriage certificate not available?

    I have found one of my 2x Gr grandparents 2nd marriage entry for 1876 (potentially) on Lanc's BMD, disapointily it says it isn't available. Also his daughter's wedding certificate in 1878 isn't available, which is where i wanted to start to see what it says and to make sure this is the right person and her father. Where else could i get that information from?
    The church where his daughter was married is a mile from me, would there be a chance that they still have the original registers there?
    Any help would be appreciated, but i don't want to state names as i have to make certain.
    Twiglet
    Last edited by TwigletNumber5; 04-10-16, 10:12.
    Twiglet

  • #2
    Originally posted by TwigletNumber5 View Post
    I have found one of my 2x Gr grandparents 2nd marriage entry for 1876 (potentially) on Lanc's BMD, disapointily it says it isn't available. Also his daughter's wedding certificate in 1878 isn't available, which is where i wanted to start to see what it says and to make sure this is the right person and her father. Where else could i get that information from?
    The church where his daughter was married is a mile from me, would there be a chance that they still have the original registers there?
    Any help would be appreciated, but i don't want to state names as i have to make certain.
    Twiglet
    If a marriage was in church then two registers would have been filled out. At the end of the quarter when the marriage took place the vicar should have submitted details copied from the register entries to the registrar - these are the copies that end up at the GRO - you should be able to find the marriage listed on FreeBMD and order the certificate from the GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ce...es/default.asp
    Once the two registers were full one should have been submitted to the local registrar's office. The other would originally have been retained by the church but ought by now to have been lodged with the diocesan records office (usually this is within the County Records Office) for safe keeping.
    If it was a church with very few marriages it is just possible that the registers are not yet complete and are both still with the church but after 140 years that seems unlikely.
    Other possibilities are that the registers suffered damage or loss (but the GRO copy should exist) or that the marriage was in a register office which has lost its records - but again quarterly returns should have been made to the GRO
    Judith passed away in October 2018

    Comment


    • #3
      The "Not Available" on LancsBMD just refers to there being no direct ordering link from the site to that particular registration district, not that the record is not available at all.

      Yu may also find the information on the Lancashire OPC pages:

      OPC, Online Parish Clerk, family history, local history, free data, parish registers, census, Lancashire, ö
      Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
      Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you looked on Freebmd ......... they should have the registrations for those marriages, and it will only cost you £9.25, p&p included, worldwide, to buy the certificates. That actually often works out cheaper than buying from the Registry Office
        My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

        Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thankyou JudithM, AntonyM, and Sylvia C.
          I found both marriages on Lanc's BMD and on the Lancashire online Parish Clerk. One was a registre office marriage and the other in my local church.
          So it seems i should be able to get both certificates from GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ce...es/default.asp ? That's really good to know.
          Can anyone tell me if they are good certificate copies and not the grainy grey copies of some certificates i have seen?

          I realise that the names/birthdates could just be a coincidence, that's what i want to check out.
          Last edited by TwigletNumber5; 04-10-16, 22:11.
          Twiglet

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          • #6
            All the certificates I have received have been fine. If it wasn't you could always ring and tell them and ask them to check whatever detail you couldn't read.
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

            Comment


            • #7
              Twiglet

              GRO copies are just that - copies. If you want originals then get them from the local RO. You will have to contact them direct but that's no great hardship, lol. As a purist I would always rather order from the local RO.

              OC

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              • #8
                Thankyou for your prompt replies Chrissie and OC.
                I am now wondering if i could pop into my local register office and order them there, How long do you have to wait if i ordered from the RO?
                But then again the GRO ones would be a cheaper option? (Decisions decisions!)LOL
                Twiglet

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you live near the County Archive for the area in which the church was you should be able to find the 'certificate' in the parish records for that church there. You could view it free in the Archive and probably get a photocopy for about 50p. You will need to buy the certificate for the Register Office wedding though, as they do not appear in the parish records. That will cost £9.25 from the GRO and a very similar price from the local register office.
                  Anne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OC ............

                    I now never order from the local Registry Office.

                    The first 3 certificates I ever ordered were from the local Registry in 2004 .............

                    they cost me as an overseas requester almost 3x what they would have cost from GRO, not including a $3 charge to buy a Money Order for pound sterling, as the local offices would not accept credit cards.

                    The local Registry also wanted a stamped addressed return envelope for each certificate or International Money Coupons to cover the cost of postage, at twice the true cost.

                    I've since checked it out several times as so many say it's best to get certificates from the local office rather than GRO, and have found it is still the same ......... only the bank charge for the Money Order has increased.

                    Plus, many local offices have stopped filling requests for certificates for family history reasons.


                    The GRO charges £9.25, including postage and handling.
                    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sylvia

                      Yes, I agree that if you live outside the UK it is easier and cheaper to get your cert from the GRO. However, if you want original authenticity you can only get that from the local RO - the primary source record, which is what we ought to be striving for.

                      I have had wonderful help from local ROs who often pointed me in a particular direction. The GRO will never do that, it is not in their remit.

                      Personally I am devastated at the tightening up of local ROs, making them distant and virtually unreachable. A very sad casualty of local authority cutbacks.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                        Sylvia

                        Yes, I agree that if you live outside the UK it is easier and cheaper to get your cert from the GRO. However, if you want original authenticity you can only get that from the local RO - the primary source record, which is what we ought to be striving for.

                        I have had wonderful help from local ROs who often pointed me in a particular direction. The GRO will never do that, it is not in their remit.

                        Personally I am devastated at the tightening up of local ROs, making them distant and virtually unreachable. A very sad casualty of local authority cutbacks.

                        OC
                        I quite agree, our local Registry office is due to close and move earlier next year, not sure if it is staying within our city or not? But i am hoping that if i go soon i may then be able to get them, if they haven't decided not to issue certificates for family history purposes?
                        You'd think they would be grateful for the custom, wouldn't you?
                        Twiglet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Sylvia

                          Yes, I agree that if you live outside the UK it is easier and cheaper to get your cert from the GRO. However, if you want original authenticity you can only get that from the local RO - the primary source record, which is what we ought to be striving for.

                          I have had wonderful help from local ROs who often pointed me in a particular direction. The GRO will never do that, it is not in their remit.

                          Personally I am devastated at the tightening up of local ROs, making them distant and virtually unreachable. A very sad casualty of local authority cutbacks.

                          OC


                          But how do you get an original certificate, even if willing to pay double or triple the cost, if the Registry Office will no longer issue them? The office I used in Oldham, for example, is no longer doing it.

                          Luckily I have managed to find a significant number of mine on line, in the Parish Records now on ancestry, FMP or even county/town site (though I had to be very lucky to find that last one!)
                          My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                          Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ALL certificates are copies - there is no "original certificate", what there is is an original register entry from which the information to go onto certificates is copied. If you get the certificate from the register office which holds the original registers then you are reducing the chance of any errors having crept in during the copying/submission process to GRO.

                            There is a statutory fee set by GRO that register offices can charge for a certificate (currently £10) although they can make additional charges for postage or express services, and the superintendent registrar is legally required to provide a copy of any entry in a register held by them on payment of the appropriate fee.

                            I do order from GRO, but I also order quite often through local offices and generally find the service is quicker, and as mentioned if there is anything out of the ordinary, or information you want checking, then most (not all) offices are very helpful.

                            Originally posted by Sylvia C View Post
                            But how do you get an original certificate, even if willing to pay double or triple the cost, if the Registry Office will no longer issue them? The office I used in Oldham, for example, is no longer doing it.
                            Oldham Register Office offer an on-line, phone, in-person or postal service http://www.oldham.gov.uk/info/200611..._a_certificate


                            There are some areas where "historic" registers may be being moved to archives rather than kept at the register office, such as in Manchester - but the ability and legal right to order a copy from them remains in place.
                            Last edited by AntonyM; 06-10-16, 08:42.
                            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A rather silly question from me, I'm afraid ..........

                              I have a GRO copy of a marriage which took place in Egypt during WWII between two members of the Armed Forces, however I would like a copy of the original certificate.

                              Any idea as to where I should apply?

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