a bit of info on Irish Catholic Baptisms

[Guest]

I find the Irish records very hard to research , I have a family of parents and 4 children and can find no Baptisms for any of them is it possible that none were baptised? as I was under the impression they would be.
Thanks

[Anne in Carlisle]

More likely the records are not amongst those online yet. Or they are so difficult to read they have not been transcribed. Do you know where they might have been born? You could the check if the dates are available for the relevant parishes.
Anne

[Guest]

Thanks Ann they are in Cork ,I have found others with the parents names listed under the mothers maiden name ? and the writing is awful , they certainly have not made it easy.
Thanks again will have a google

[Anne in Carlisle]

Yes, the ones I have browsed through do have both parents surnames and also the names of the godparents. They seem to be randomly latinised though, so that makes it less easy as I suspect the same surname is rendered in slightly different ways.
Anne

[Sue1]

I too have struggled with the transcriptions of Irish Ancestors - I now know Jacobus is James - my research was even more confused because the surname occurred obviously with the parents and one with one of the witnesses, then there was an extra one with same surname and he was on all the entries! Turned out the Priest had the same surname.
Husband hails from the Emerald Isle and is reasonable at the latinised names - if stuck let me know and I will ask him.
Translation of latin to english however does not solve all the problems of extracting info from these records - they are of course old, no one expected them to be viewed by the public and writing is variable and sometimes I suspect the Priest entering the info spilt his ?tea!
Elwyn is also good at latin to english!
Sue

[Karamazov]

I too have struggled with the transcriptions of Irish Ancestors - I now know Jacobus is James - my research was even more confused because the surname occurred obviously with the parents and one with one of the witnesses, then there was an extra one with same surname and he was on all the entries! Turned out the Priest had the same surname.
Husband hails from the Emerald Isle and is reasonable at the latinised names - if stuck let me know and I will ask him.
Translation of latin to english however does not solve all the problems of extracting info from these records - they are of course old, no one expected them to be viewed by the public and writing is variable and sometimes I suspect the Priest entering the info spilt his ?tea!
Elwyn is also good at latin to english!
Sue

You will often find (inflected) Latin versions of first names, eg Annam for Ann, Maria for Mary, Jacobus for James, Eugenius for Owen, Dionysius for Denis etc but surnames are not inflected/Latinised.

This is useful for entries in Latin plus Irish first names and their Latin equivalents.
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.c...registers.html

[Karamazov]

Yes, the ones I have browsed through do have both parents surnames and also the names of the godparents. They seem to be randomly latinised though, so that makes it less easy as I suspect the same surname is rendered in slightly different ways.
Anne

Hi Anne,
In my experience of ploughing through hundreds of these records, it is only first names that are Latinised. I haven't yet come across a Latinised/inflected surname (although that's not to say that it never happened :o)

I would guess it's more likely that the English spelling is varied. For instance, I've found at least 10 variants of my Bannigans in different record collections as Banigan, Bannagan, Banegan, Bangan etc etc - hence I now use wildcards quite extensively when searching.

Christine

[Anne in Carlisle]

Unfotunately the surname I am interested in is Gartland which can be rendered Gartleny or Gartly. I had assumed ths was a sort of dog Latin but maybe I am wrong. It is confusing anyway, specially when there are Garland and Gartlan in the same parish.
Anne

[Olde Crone Holden]

It is also useful t remember that many priests, particularly rural ones, had little or no knowledge of Latin. What they did know (liturgy and prayers etc) they learned by rote and didn't necessarily understand the grammar. This leads to all kinds of dog latin entries.

I am actually quite impressed that so many RC records ARE on line. When I started researching in the 1970s it was absolutely impossible to get RC records unless you were yourself RC.

OC

[Sue1]

I was completely thrown by the 1911 census written by husband's G. Grandfather, Francis Cassidy. 1901 census said he could not fill form in because he could not read or write - ok - not that unusual. 1911 census he filled in with rather nice writing, flourishes and quite a practised hand - he filled it in completely in the Irish Language! He signed his surname with an extra big flourish as Proncais (or similar) O'Cassaide .........I suspect he was making a point but it did make my husband and I laugh. I am told it is pronounced Pranchise (pronounced as spelt but not spelt as pronounced) - there is, however, no "h" in the Irish alphabet - I think there a few other of the letters we use that are not used in Gaelic.
All the many children's names were also in Gaelic!

These little things are sent to try us! Sue

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Surnames wouldn't be latinised - they were of no importance when recording the sacrament of baptism. Baptism is for "Christian" names, now referred to as forenames. When the priest asks godparents to name the child, the family or surname is not given as part of the response. It plays no part in church events and is only a civil label to distinguish one Mary or John from another.

Jay

[JBee]

Val where did you find Cork baptisms and what time scale please??

I'm looking for c1843 - my Bridgit Sands says in the 1901 census that she was born in Cork/Cook yet can't find any Sands families in Cork. (except one rich one which wouldn't be mind lol). She died before the 1911 census unfortunately.

[Guest]

what I meant Jbee is the ones I have found in Ireland are awful, I just had a look in 1901 and there is a Bridget Sands born abt the right time but not in Cork
http://www.census.nationalarchives.i.../nai001045041/ was that her maiden name ?

[JBee]

Sorry thought you'd found some in Cork.

I have my Bridgit Sands in the English census's from 1871 onwards in her married name.

[Tilly Mint]

I can't find my Augustine Ansboro in Tipperary. He has on his army records that he was born in Roscrea, Tipperary born approx 1860 but i have never found a birth for him anywhere in Ireland. He has his father as Martin Ansboro...this is all i know for Augustine until he went to live in India.....

Martin was a policeman and someone told me pregnant wives were often moved to other parts of Ireland for safety......

I have looked under Ansboro, Ansbro, Hansborough, Ansborough and Ausboro...no luck, i wonder if he was telling porkies

[Elwyn]

I can't find my Augustine Ansboro in Tipperary. He has on his army records that he was born in Roscrea, Tipperary born approx 1860 but i have never found a birth for him anywhere in Ireland. He has his father as Martin Ansboro...this is all i know for Augustine until he went to live in India.....

Martin was a policeman and someone told me pregnant wives were often moved to other parts of Ireland for safety......

I have looked under Ansboro, Ansbro, Hansborough, Ansborough and Ausboro...no luck, i wonder if he was telling porkies

I assume Augustine was RC. Roscrea RC parish records are on-line on the NLI site and also digitalized on Ancestry and FMP. They start in 1810 are generally complete. Digitalisation doesn’t always transcribe names correctly. I’d be inclined to go through the originals on the NLI site to see if you can find it yourself.

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes

RIC policy was that a police officer should not serve in a county in which he or his spouse had connections. So you would expect Augustine not to have served in Co. Tip. It would be up to him to decide whether to take his wife and children with him to any posting. Some did, and some didn’t. You can get a copy of his RIC service record from a variety of locations eg PRONI in Belfast, TNA Kew, NAS Dublin etc. If you can’t get to those, the PSNI museum in Belfast will provide a copy for a £25 fee.

https://www.psni.police.uk/index/about-us/police_museum/museum_genealogy.htm

Augustine had to be 19 to join the RIC (18 if his father had served with them), and he had to have served 7 years before he could marry. You can use those benchmarks to check his year of birth etc. from other sources you may have, eg his marriage cert.

[Elwyn]

I was completely thrown by the 1911 census written by husband's G. Grandfather, Francis Cassidy. 1901 census said he could not fill form in because he could not read or write - ok - not that unusual. 1911 census he filled in with rather nice writing, flourishes and quite a practised hand - he filled it in completely in the Irish Language! He signed his surname with an extra big flourish as Proncais (or similar) O'Cassaide .........I suspect he was making a point but it did make my husband and I laugh. I am told it is pronounced Pranchise (pronounced as spelt but not spelt as pronounced) - there is, however, no "h" in the Irish alphabet - I think there a few other of the letters we use that are not used in Gaelic.
All the many children's names were also in Gaelic!

These little things are sent to try us! Sue

Pronsias is just the Irish for Frances, as Sean is John, Eamon is Edward, and so on.

It’s completely lawful to complete a census in Gaelic and Welsh. And in Ireland prior to independence that was the case too. In 1911, in certain parts of Ireland a lot of people specially chose to do so. (Most had completed it in English in 1901). Possibly making a political point. In practice, many didn’t actually complete the form themselves. They usually got the local schoolmaster or priest to do it. So you often see the same educated and formal handwriting on form after form within the same townland.

The enumerators were normally policemen, most of whom spoke Irish, and so wouldn’t have had any difficulty in processing the forms.

[Tilly Mint]

Thanks for looking in and sharing the links, Elwyn...much appreciated

[Sue1]

I am still plodding through Irish baptisms - BUT cannot find any available for 1760 for Dromore Diocese, Newry, ?Armagh, ?Down - could be either depending on whether these folk were on the Down or Armagh side of Bridge Street, Newry. Thought to be Down.
Are there any baptisms available online for that far back? - have been going through the 1800 baptisms to see if any children were baptised in the name of Conor - not one so far (nor Connor). The person I am looking for is a Francis Conor (Connor) b 1760 25 Bridge Street, Newry. I suspect he is a bit early for the online records.
Sue

[Guest]

francis conor.jpgnot sure if this is any help really bad at Irish places, there is a will for a Francis Conor in 1812