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Thread: Jewish connection?

  1. #1

    Jewish connection?

    I have traced my husband's line on the maternal side with great difficulty as his mother died when he was very young, father remarried and mother wasn't spoken about. Through the Salvation Army we located his cousin (who sadly now has dementia) and when we met up, some years ago, I discussed what HER knowledge was (their mothers were sisters). The one thing she threw up, when I mentioned that I had traced the Ryder side of the family (in Leeds) back to the sisters' grandfather, one George Harris Ryder, she said that as a child she had been snooping through her mother's belongings and found a paper with the name Lazarus on it. She was caught, and the next time she looked it was gone. I queried whether this was a forename, but she said no, his surname was Lazarus! I subsequently discovered a George Harris Lazarus. G H Ryder, on his marriage certificate (married Margaret Kennedy, also of Leeds) has his father as Harris Ryder (decd), and lo and behold G H Lazarus's father was Harris Lazarus. I haven't looked at this information for a long time, but have just read Jess Welsby's book The Daddy of all Mysteries, and it has really made me think. The Ryders came from Ireland, (Tipperary), so maybe there was an Irish/Eastern European link? When and why did the Lazarus family become Ryder? If anyone has any thoughts on where I might look I would be so grateful. My husband is now 77 and is not in the best of health, but he and his brother have expressed an interest in visiting Tipperary (if we can narrow it down a bit) but I need a bit more to go on to make it worth their while. Thank you in anticipation of any ideas. Colliemag

  2. #2
    Member clematised's Avatar
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    Hi and Welcome to the Forum Colliemag,
    You should be able to get lots of help and advice here from the Forum members some names you will recognise from the book and others maybe not mentioned but all the same you will get help. Wallaby's book was memorable for all of us who were involved in the threads here and also for other member's looking in and following them.
    Names were sometimes changed to Anglisize them possibly during war time but usually for reasons of wanting to simplify a name.
    Don't be afraid to ask a question as no question is a silly question to us as we have all asked them in our time of learning.

    Edna

  3. #3
    Hello Colliemag and welcome to the forum.

    George Harris LAZARUS was born in 1872 in Leeds. He married as George Harris RYDER in 1901 in Leeds. So he changed his name between 1872 and 1901. the usual reason for changing the name was so that a person did not sound Jewish - anti Semitism was on the increase at the turn of the century.

    The next logical step is to look for him on census, to see who he was with and what they were called and where they claim to have been born. I'm sorry, I don't have access to census but I'm sure someone else will be along to help in a minute!

    OC

  4. #4
    A shot in the dark to keep to one side for later!

    Morris LAZARUS m Betsy RIDER 1839 Leeds.

    OC

  5. #5
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    Hello Colliemag,
    i have found a Harris Lazarus aged 1 in the 1841 census in Leeds along with his mother Betsy aged 30. (I think ages were often rounded to the next 5 in 1841 - someone else will confirm this, I'm sure!)
    I've also found extensive prison records on FindMyPast for this same Harris Lazarus where his name is recorded as Harris Ryder or Lazarus. A series of convictions at Leeds Borough sessions. NOK on pre-marriage convictions is Betsy Lazarus. Interestingly his religion varies from RC and then a change is recorded to Protestant in November 1866. His wife's name is recorded as Harriet. This tallies with an 1865 q4 Leeds marriage of a Harris Ryder to Harriet Elizabeth Wilson, vol 9b page 649.
    Mother Betsy was born in county according to 1841 but Harris wasn't. This might be where a Tipperary connection comes in but I haven't got time to pursue this any further at the moment...
    I will send you a private message shortly!

    Christine
    Last edited by Karamazov; 11-08-15 at 22:13.
    Researching:
    HOEY
    (assorted Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballyculter, Strangford, Co Down)

  6. #6
    Member clematised's Avatar
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    To be able to send and receive private messages Colliemag you have to make ten pots in total so get posting anything here just to get to that number quickly

    Edna

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by clematised View Post
    To be able to send and receive private messages Colliemag you have to make ten pots in total so get posting anything here just to get to that number quickly

    Edna
    I think I've read in a thread just in the last day or two that you could send a reply to a PM without having posted 10 messages. Just can't remember where I read it! So give it a try Colliemag and see what happens?..
    Last edited by Karamazov; 11-08-15 at 22:27.
    Researching:
    HOEY
    (assorted Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballyculter, Strangford, Co Down)

  8. #8
    Member clematised's Avatar
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    It will go to the Mods it happened a few days ago to a lady I sent a message to and her reply was picked up by Caroline, I hope she sees this tomorrow and quickly posts more messages.

    Edna

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by clematised View Post
    It will go to the Mods it happened a few days ago to a lady I sent a message to and her reply was picked up by Caroline, I hope she sees this tomorrow and quickly posts more messages.

    Edna
    Well, however it happened, I got a reply from Colliemag to the private message within a quarter of an hour!

    Christine
    Researching:
    HOEY
    (assorted Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballyculter, Strangford, Co Down)

  10. #10
    Member Mary from Italy's Avatar
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    Harris Lazarus's marriage to Harriet is on Ancestry, and his father is given as Maurice Lazarus, hawker.

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