Help with lost half siblings

[margaretmarch]

Just looking on the burial records on JewishGen and found one for Isaac Tanenbaum died 6 July 1961. The headstone shows Rose Tanenbaum and she died 3 Oct 1998.

Here's the death record
Rose Tanenbaum
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1900
Date of Registration: Oct 1998
Age at Death: 98
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Register Number: B37
District and Subdistrict: 2381B
Entry Number: 6

Isaac Tannenbaum
Birth Date: abt 1898
Date of Registration: Sep 1961
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 511

By the age I guess Isaac would be a brother possibly to Bella. Just information for parking in case it is useful.

The main thing to note is the different spelling of the surname.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Just a thought because I can't remember - did you email the cemetery about Leah at all? They would no doubt have information about the plot and maybe who arranged things.

Margaret

[Wallaby]

I'm just dashing off to work but I've had a response for the gravestone inscription. Some kind person translated it before I'd even put a message asking for help!


Here lies An important woman and glory to her children
Mrs. Leah Eden
daughter of Yisroel Mordechai, may he rest in peace.
Died 8 Av 5727
May her soul be bound up...




Great find Margaret!

I'll be back tonight


Wal'

[Wallaby]

PS ...

Cookie

This is the email address you want to use to send a message to JewishGen

Check the SIGs to see if they have a SIG for Canada & whatever other countries you think family could be found.

jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org - The main JGen board/list, whatever it's called. It's mainly read by people in the US and all over.

When putting your message together use all caps for all surnames including surname in subject box.
Subject box could simply say " researching TANENBAUM.

Then the message
Finish message with your name, country of residence & email.

Also subscribe to that main board/list so that they send you the list each day.

No time to explain how to do that just now, so have a go & I'll be back tonight.


Wal'

[margaretmarch]

I'm just dashing off to work but I've had a response for the gravestone inscription. Some kind person translated it before I'd even put a message asking for help!


Here lies An important woman and glory to her children
Mrs. Leah Eden
daughter of Yisroel Mordechai, may he rest in peace.
Died 8 Av 5727
May her soul be bound up...




Great find Margaret!

I'll be back tonight


Wal'

That's interesting as the transcript gives her other surname of Ermou yet that is not shown on the gravestone - it must be shown on the other paperwork maybe the death cert?
We really need to find an obit for her or some reference to who was involved in her burial.
Margaret

[Pookie]

Hi to you both

in answer to your posts.

WAL -pleased that you have been sent the translation - I'm not sure we have the right person as I think my Lea's maiden name was Eden or maybe Abcarius. So the name of her father would not be as detailed. Once I have her marriage cert we will know for certain.

I will try this afternoon to send a post on JewishGen once my grandson has a nap! ( hopefully)

Margaret - the two details you have found for Tenenbaum could possibly be related but as she was living in Egypt and her father came from Czech, I'm not sure if there were relatives in UK?

will have a proper look later

Pookie

[margaretmarch]

Hi to you both

in answer to your posts.

WAL -pleased that you have been sent the translation - I'm not sure we have the right person as I think my Lea's maiden name was Eden or maybe Abcarius. So the name of her father would not be as detailed. Once I have her marriage cert we will know for certain.

I will try this afternoon to send a post on JewishGen once my grandson has a nap! ( hopefully)

Margaret - the two details you have found for Tenenbaum could possibly be related but as she was living in Egypt and her father came from Czech, I'm not sure if there were relatives in UK?

will have a proper look later

Pookie

The name on the details for this Leah's death is Ermou and I am sure it is who we have been seeking - on the marriage to Ermou she is indexed as Eden or Abcarius so I believe her maiden name is Eden. The father's name given on the inscription will just be his first names so as not to repeat the surname.

The marriage cert will certainly prove either way.

As regards Bella I am assuming she spoke English rather than Arabic whilst living in Egypt so maybe she was there with the Army?
Have you got either of the half-siblings birth certificates to see if she had an occupation?
Margaret

[Pookie]

The name on the details for this Leah's death is Ermou and I am sure it is who we have been seeking - on the marriage to Ermou she is indexed as Eden or Abcarius so I believe her maiden name is Eden. The father's name given on the inscription will just be his first names so as not to repeat the surname.

The marriage cert will certainly prove either way.

As regards Bella I am assuming she spoke English rather than Arabic whilst living in Egypt so maybe she was there with the Army?
Have you got either of the half-siblings birth certificates to see if she had an occupation?
Margaret

I agree that the names given on Ancestry's details say Leah Eden Ermou, but the grave stone doesn't that's why I'm a little sceptical as they have been known to get things incorrect!! I'm always making translation corrections.where would they have got Ermou from then?

The cemetery people wrote back to me and said there was no documentation as it was to long ago and details were very sketchy.

also her birth date given on the passenger list for 1959 gives a definite birth date of day, month and year of 1907 so differs from the listing on her gravestone which would imply she was born in 1903.

although my father was a fluent Arabic speaker as he'd been in the Middle East/ Egypt since 1930, I would have assumed that she spoke English. Her father is listed on their marriage cert as a Merchant and gives no occupation for Bella.Nor do the half siblings birth certs.

why would she be buried under her Maiden of Eden? Is that a Jewish surname?

i have taken note of the different spelling for Tenenbaum - on all the documents I have it is spelt like that - but that doesn't mean it's not been either mistranscribed or changed.

my gut feeling is that Bella lived in Egypt with her family, possibly born there and was in some way either related to or friend of Lea(h) Eden/Abcarius. The Ermou surname would have come when Leah married in 1952,

what about Leon Abcarius travelling with her in 1938? We've not found anything further for him- could he have taken the name Ermou when she remarried?

Did Lea(h) move to Egypt with her family named Eden when young, stay there marry an Abcarius then move back to UK.

I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I had found Two Lea Eden's both born in Lancs one in 1901 the other in 1907. One would have appeared to marry locally twice - the other born in 1907 I'm not able to see any marriages for her- could she be ours?

I am with my daughter at the moment looking after my grandson and won't be home until late tomorrow or even Wednesday so I hope the marriage Cert will be there when I get back as the suspense is driving me up the wall!!!!
Pookie

[margaretmarch]

It could be a Jewish tradition to be buried with a maiden name as of course that is your name! Lots of cultures do not require women to change their names on marriage - I live in Spain and women here don't change plus children get 2 surnames one of which is their mothers - it's always very confusing for us Brits as we only have one surname but all the forms we have to fill in ask for 2!

I can't believe it is not Leah with that combination of surnames especially when Ermou is so rare.

Margaret

[Pookie]

I'm sure you're probably correct. We are a perculiar race, us British!! Your knowledge is far greater than mine!

ive been having a look on JewishGen at Tenenbaums not found any likely ones yet and still not sure where to post anything!!

sleep time is over now so have to do some painting I think!!
Pookie

[Pookie]

Back home now after exhausting time looking after my grandson!

had hoped to find Ermou marriage cert on the doormat, but sadly not - still tomorrow is another day and let's hope!

had 129 people look at my Rootchats post but no replies yet!

still not posted on JewishGen as can't work out how to do it!

Hoping for for some advice/help please!!

Pookie

[patchem]

Have you seen that rootschat have moderated your posting as they do not allow discussion of living people. This means that they have removed some surnames, though the ones that you state are dead remain. However the ones that you want to find who you believe are still living have been removed.

They also point out that you can conduct correspondence by private message - but you cannot until you have posted three times.

If you hope for private correspondence you need to put up 2 more messages - even if just 'hello'.

Possibly rootschat is not the correct board for your query - try another website e.g. genes living relatives?

[Pookie]

Thanks for letting me know. I have just been onto Rootschat and noticed that they have altered the details.
i presume though you can only PM if someone actually replies to you!

Ive not tried Genes Living Relatives, I could certainly give it a try, I've tried everywhere else!
Pookie

[clematised]

With Rootschat you have to make several messages on their boards before being able to send a PM to another member so get posting on the New Member board or something similar just introduce yourself or something it used to be three messages but not sure if that has changed.
I am a member of GR if you need any help there.

Edna

[margaretmarch]

With Rootschat you have to make several messages on their boards before being able to send a PM to another member so get posting on the New Member board or something similar just introduce yourself or something it used to be three messages but not sure if that has changed.
I am a member of GR if you need any help there.

Edna

Pookie already has a couple of possible addresses in Canada for the people concerned and is waiting for the marriage cert for Leah Eden Ermou to see if it will help.

I think we are nearly at the point of writing to one of possible people to see what can be found out as all other avenues have been exhausted.

Margaret

[Pookie]

UREKA- I've just had it!!!! I've had a reply from someone on Rootschat who has found the Obituary for Bella Tenenbaum Guy!!!!!! She died in Montreal on 11.12.1998.

its details the names of her children(my half siblings) thier partners & their children. It also says that she was ...'wife of the late Edward Guy...' So that says to me that they must have kept in contact somehow for them to know he had already passed away? She also never remarried and just used her maiden name.

the details of her siblings are interesting named as Issie,Edgar & Eleana Eden, the late Lisa Jaffe, these seem familiar names to us and would explain a few things?

also listed are late siblings Albert, Joseph,Maurice EDEN and David Teneh.

so now where Leah Ermou fits into all this is even more of a mystery!!!! Could Lea(h) be the Eleana Eden and therefore her sister and Lisa Jaffe the mother of our P.J.???

Well I've just been given the details of ,hopefully, my half sisters address and her husbands work details, so I think I'm going to write via him and see where we go from there!

i will wait to see what, if any reply comes from him and then deal with my half brother when the time is right.

I'm just beside myself today after 40yrs of trying and it all comes spilling out today, when we have also been told we are to become grandparents again! This is a true miracle as my daughter had three lots of IVF to have our grandson and was told she would never have a child without help and she has!! So I'm delighted my grandson will have a sibling. That means so much to me as I've lived without any for so long and knowing there were some somewhere.

thanks so much for all your support and I'm still intrigued to see where Leah Ermou fits in!

[Janet in Yorkshire]

How exciting - thanks for sharing

Jay

[Pookie]

I know - it's brilliant! Just hope they are happy to communicate.

Im so grateful to everyone who has given me the help to spur me on. I shall report back once I've some news!

Pookie

[Pookie]

Well all my new dear friends - I have some good news and some bad!

I contacted my half sisters husband and left a message asking if I could speak to him that was yesterday afternoon and this morning 6 am to be precise we had a call which my husband managed to cut off in answering at that early time!

IT WAS MY HALF SISTER!!!!!! she left me a message saying she'd call me back and she sounded cheerful and lovely voice and ended the call with 'my love'............ so at least she does want to make contact.

Pookie

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Brilliant!!! Thrilled for you.

Jay