Help re Dempster please

[vera2013]

I'm just wondering if, as William would have been quite young when his father died in 1906, the information given on his mc may have referred to William (Wallace) and occupation to his father Herbert Frederick who does appear as a Gardener in one of the Census (1891)

It is possible therefore that your bc for William Herbert b 1899 with father Herbert is correct. William is then baptised in 1900.

Herbert Frederick b 1874 d 1906 was born in Pailton, Warwickshire which has a registration district of Lutterwoth, Leics. His father was Adam b 1844 Scotland d 1904 England who is a Gamekeeper on the 1871 Wales census. He was married to Frances b 1842 Worcs.

Do you have any birth or marriage certs on his sibling/s. Not sure if only Frances survived from the marriage

Vera

[jean banaszak]

Hi Vera, yes I have the Birth/marriage Certs for William Herbert and all the other Information, it's the fact that my cousins insist their mum's told them he was born in Edinborough that is confusing me.Personally I think I have the right one. I think I will have to try and get some records from Percy House Military Hospital in Isleworth somehow, my cousin sent me a copy of his discharge paper but it had no other details on except Reg/Rank and number.

Jean

[vera2013]

I would have thought it unlikely that your William was born in Scotland. His grandfather, Adam, was born in Scotland then the family settled in Wales where many of William's father's siblings were born. Herbert F and the later siblings were born in England. The sisters of the possible William b 1898 were baptised in Liverpool with their father being recorded as a Gardener.

Do your cousins have any documented evidence for this Edinburgh birth?

Good idea to get whatever records maybe available to hopefully confirm things.

Vera

[jean banaszak]

Hi Vera, no, they have no proof so just heard from thei mum's. There are at least 16 more cousins of mine but they havnt been found yet. I didnt have contact with the two I have found until 2007.

Thanks for your help Val and Vera.

Jean

[vera2013]

Just looked at the 1891 again. See there is a 4 year gap between Samuel Anderson and the birth of William (Herbert). On the 1891 Herbert F is a Dock Labourer and later at the bap of the Francis and Harriet is a Gardener. Seems strange to go from a Dock Labourer to a Gardener.

The only scenario I can think of for an Edinburgh birth is that, after the birth of Samuel and the possible death or not of Samuel's father, Elizabeth Annie met up with Herbert F in Lancashire, they then headed off to Scotland where William Herbert was possibly born in Edinburgh and where Herbert F worked as a Gardener. They then returned to Lancs where Herbert F temporarily worked as a Dock Labourer before reverting to gardening again. Hence the reason for the late baptism of William Herbert.

I will take a closer look at Elizabeth Annie

Vera

[jean banaszak]

Oh, so he could have been born in Edinburgh but they registered him in lancs, could they have lied as to where he was born,?

[jean banaszak]

The gardener bit sounds ok, as cousins told Williams dad was a gamekeeperGardener at the Castle.

[vera2013]

Didn't think of that possible scenario. That Lancs 1898 registration fits well but not with the bap. Although the baptism was a Private one so possibly some reason for that also, Remind me on what did William Herbert's bc say re father's occupation.

Just going out to the shops. Will look in again later.

Vera

[jean banaszak]

Just checked birth and marriage certs, on birth it says Herbert was a Dock Labourer but on the marriage it says Gardener. With his fathers name as William.Now thats confusing, lol.

[vera2013]

No, I think that makes it better. It shows a record of Herbert F being both.

So in 1891 census he was a Gardener, on the 1899 bc of William a Dock Labourer, 1900 baptism of William a Labourer, 1901 census a Dock Labourer, 1901 baptism of Frances Annie a Gardener and the later bap of Harriet a Gardener. We also have William (Herbert) together with Frances on the 1901.

Just putting some thoughts down.

Vera

[Guest]

hi I see that other people in your contacts say he was born in Scotland and came to Liverpool when he was about 7 ?? if thats so he would not be on the 1901 census in Lancashire he would be on one in Scotland , as he is only about 3 then unless he was born in 1894 and not 1898 .
Wonder if they had another Son who died before him and they named the next one after him? which is the one you have.
Ignore me if you think that is nonsense I've been gardening and the heat got to me .

[jean banaszak]

Hope you didnt get too sun burnt Val, thats it as well, I cant find him on a birth in Edinburgh, When Lemon was on here a few years ago she checked in the Records Office but couldnt find a birth.

[Guest]

I'm now more or less convinced you have the right family, I also went on Scotlandspeople again today , so many rumours seem to start within families and they are quite often wrong.
I am sitting here under a Ceiling Fan with a cold wet Flannel on my Head, not a pretty sight.

[jean banaszak]

Need to see if I can get some sort of Military Records on him, might find out that way.

Thanks for your time and help val.x

[Guest]

has nobody else in your contacts found his army records ???

[Guest]

have you got this record ?? think its him

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5119/41804_626640_12015-00222/6315042?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fnew%3d1%26gsfn%3dw%2bh%26gsln%3ddempster%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26msbdy%3d1898%26sbo%3d1%26pcat%3dUK_WWI_COLLECTIONS%26h%3d6315042%26recoff%3d5%2b6%2b7%26db%3dIWOServiceMedalAwardRolls%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[Guest]

not sure what army records you already have

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5119/41629_611411_5583-00287/1426724?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fnew%3d1%26gsfn%3dw%2bh%26gsln%3ddempster%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26msbdy%3d1898%26sbo%3d1%26pcat%3dUK_WWI_COLLECTIONS%26h%3d1426724%26recoff%3d6%2b7%26db%3dIWOServiceMedalAwardRolls%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d43&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[jean banaszak]

No, its not him Val, he was in the Manchester Reg as a Private his number was 27134 or 57134 both numbers give same details, his medal cards, unfortunately no Pension or Service Record.

[jean banaszak]

Ive posted on Records on here to see if anyone is going to TNA, to have a look for me, no reply as yet. Im the only one doing this tree from William Herbert to now, I have been in touch with brothers side, but they dont know any more than I do.

[Guest]

probably amongst the ones that got destroyed, who is that person on here that finds army records for people? I'm sure there is one.