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Giblert Hayhurst died 1826 to 1827, nr Kendal, Westomorland

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
    Oh, nice one OC! This is better than watching a soap opera! How sneaky. It's a bit like "off shore accounts"!
    Vonny

    :D:D

    It is, isn't it!



    George Fox preached in St Andrew's church yard, Sedbergh, in 1652. He apparently referred to the church as the "steeple house". He also preached on nearby Firbank Fell.


    I dug a little further at the time when I was researching Brigg Flatts Meeting House and Robert Hayhurst, and found this little tidbit ..................


    Writing after the events of that year [1652], Fox recalled the vision that he had after climbing Pendle Hill:-

    ‘And ye Lord opened to me at that place: & let me see a great people in white raiment by a rivers syde comeinge to ye Lorde; and ye place was neere (John Blayklinges where Rich: Robinson lived).

    This identifies Brigflatts as the place in the vision ……. the riverside refers to the Rawthey River which flows past the end of Brigflatts Lane, and the reference to "people in white rainment" could be a reference to the large community of Flax Weavers living in the lane at the time, and the white linen they made.

    Richard Robinson's house can still be seen from the Brigg Flatts Meeting House garden although it is a private dwelling and not open to the public


    Later that week Fox went on to preach in the churchyard of Sedbergh church and then on to the great open-air meeting on Firbank Fell which is now usually identified as the start of the Quaker movement. The crag upon which Fox preached is now known as Fox's Pulpit and is a popular destination for those tracing the origins of the Society.

    A permanent Meeting was settled by Fox at Brigflatts later in 1652 and has continued uninterrupted until this day.
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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    • #42
      Thankyou for that, Sylvia. Perhaps it is just a coincidence that my man's grandfather "regularly walked 25 miles on a Sunday to worship in secret on Pendle Hill". Perhaps Pendle Hill was crammed with secret places of worship, lol.

      They too were weavers but that isn't remarkable as so was everyone else and certainly by 1700 they were appearing in the Methodist circuit records. They were also being fined by the local C of E church for refusing to baptise their children and of course they wouldn't have been fined if they were Quaker.

      OC

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      • #43
        I have never heard the term before OC Copyhold but have just found this interesting article http://www.intriguing-history.com/co...ure-does-mean/

        I must take another look at my Welsh wills and also my Quaker wills and check through the wording.

        Edna

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        • #44
          It has just occurred to me - Gilbert and Cuthbert are almost indistinguishable if you write them in curly old fashioned writing.

          OC

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          • #45
            oh, please OC!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hadn't thought of that :D
            My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

            Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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            • #46
              Haha, Sylvia!

              I hadn't realised how close Slaidburn is to my Holden stamping ground. One of the ancient posts various Holdens held was steward of the forest of Boland (Bowland). As the area was so sparsely populated in the 1600s, your Hayhursts must have known my Holdens, not that that helps you at all of course. I have found research in that area quite difficult because it constantly changes from Yorks to Lancs, from Whalley to Clitheroe and so on. I also think a lot of church records were lost or are not available.

              Sorry to be of no help!

              OC

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              • #47
                Oh no!!! :D


                OC .....

                It is believed that the Hayhursts originated in the Forest of Boland area ........ the Holdens and Hayhursts probably did know each other .............

                and who knows, they might even have intermarried ;)


                A contact on Rootschat sent me some information on the Hayhursts compiled by a historian that contained the following little tidbits ......

                There is a 'parallel' family, who were also millers in the Kirkby Lonsdale area. ............ if you find any Cs or Gs, you know they are from the 'milling' families. ........... Although we cannot yet prove a link, it must surely be the case that these two lines are related. One member of the other family provides the link with the Forest of Bowland. So, although final documentary proof is still lacking, we can be reasonably certain of a line of descent back to about 1550. There is another gap before that, and the link with the Ribchester Hayhursts is lacking. The important thing is this, however:- 'Hayhurst' is a name sufficiently rare for us to be reasonably confident that all Hayhursts belong to the same family. And the further back in time we go, the narrower is the geographical distribution. This is why I can say with some confidence that the family origins lie in the Ribble Valley. Early documents refer to such people as 'Otto de Hayhurst in the parish of Dutton'. At this date, when surnames were just beginning to be adopted, that sort of name just means 'Otto from the place called Hayhurst in Dutton'. Dutton still exists as a civil parish, and there is still a farmstead called 'Hey Hurst'. . As a historian I must repeat that there is no evidence, but I shall be very much surprised if that farm is not the 'ancestral home'.

                Your guys were Stewards ...........


                I wonder if my guys were poachers :D
                My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Sylvia

                  Can't remember where I read it now, but the Lord of the Manor of Bowland was also Steward of Boland (still is although the title lapsed and was sold, lol, so the present incumbent isn't a relation).

                  I've looked at my tree and cannot find any Hayhursts but there are quite a few Hursts. I'll have a proper dig when I get a chance.

                  I agree with the above info, that all Hayhursts are probably from one family - just as all Holdens are descended from one family. Curiously, no one knows exactly where the manor of Holden stood and it is thought it was a description of various manors, rather than just one, but I have found some tantalising clues in the names of old fields in the Bowland area, Holden Gate being just one!

                  This is not a scientific observation but it is my experience that something like a Mill would be originally controlled by the Lord of the Manor and ownership/tenancy would filter down the centuries though the same (related) families, as milling was rather a comfortable position to have!

                  I find this kind of research absolutely fascinating (before bmds and church records). An old man in the research office once told me to "follow the money. Follow the land because land never moves, unlike people" , and land records would have been considered far more important than recording bmds as land has a value. Bmds don't! I have also been quite shaken to discover that names of fields etc haven't changed in 800 years!

                  OC

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                  • #49
                    Durh, I keep meaning to say - Gilbert Holden was the last Lord of the Manor of Holden before his family split into two halves - protestant and catholic. He died in 1554. I wonder if the Holdens and the Hayhursts shared the name Gilbert, which is/was quite unusual at that time.

                    OC

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                    • #50
                      I only wish I had more access to land records!!


                      Hayhurst is often found as Hairst in the early days ........ so could also be Hurst


                      I think you are right in assuming that the mill would be controlled by the Lord of the Manor, and that the tenancy of both it and at least some of the farms would go down through the same families


                      I was quite amazed to read a book put together on the village of Preston Bissett in Buckinghamshire, and see an old map that showed a field behind the Old Rectory was known as Cadd Field.

                      That's where my Dad's ancestors came from ........ but they were all Ag Labs and Lace Makers, as far as I have found so far, with the odd one who became Gamekeeper and the odd one who was caught poaching. I haven't yet found a Farmer, or anyone who might have had a field named after them!

                      Unfortunately I don't have a copy of that book, called something like "Cadds from Preston Bissett to Oldham" ............. it was a small printing, and was lent to me by a cousin when I was staying with her in Australia. She's now dead, and I haven't had the nerve to ask her husband if he still has it.
                      My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                      Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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